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IWD2 : MOON MONK/ SORCERER

hey fellas!
I dont know if any of you are familiar with Icewind Dale II, I just started it and I made a Drow Moon Monk, but I am really tempted to dual-class it to sorcerer since it's said that I wouldn't loose the possibility to progress with the monk's level. So:

1) Does that mean that I can reach maximum level with both classes?
2) If not, I would rather make a strong monk with some nasty sorcerer spells (up to level 5th or 6th): therefore, at what level should I multiclass?
3) Which sorcerer's spells would make my monk a killing machine?

Thank you for the help!

Comments

  • Barba777Barba777 Member Posts: 48
    Barba777 wrote: »
    hey fellas!
    I dont know if any of you are familiar with Icewind Dale II, I just started it and I made a Drow Moon Monk, but I am really tempted to dual-class it to sorcerer since it's said that I wouldn't loose the possibility to progress with the monk's level. So:

    1) Does that mean that I can reach maximum level with both classes?
    2) If not, I would rather make a strong monk with some nasty sorcerer spells (up to level 5th or 6th): therefore, at what level should I multiclass?
    3) Which sorcerer's spells would make my monk a killing machine?

    Thank you for the help!

    Please, very urgent! :#

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 472
    Sorry, it's been years since I've played IWD2, and I don't remember the XP cap or how dual/multi-classing worked in that game (since IWD2 straddled a weird position where it was using a combination of 2nd and 3rd Ed rules, as I recall.)

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 589
    High-wisdom casters can benefit greatly from a single monk level because they can then add their wisdom modifier to AC. Because of this you see a fair number of clericX/monk1 and druidX/monk1 characters. However this isn't typically very valuable for other casters like wizards or sorcerers.

    Occasionally you see wizards or sorcerers splash a single monk level anyway because they see evasion (which monks get at 1st level) and mistakenly think they'll suddenly be able to avoid damage from fireballs and the like. The problem is that evasion only works if you successfully make your reflex save which means it's not going to help you much unless your reflex save is good anyway, like a high-DEX rogue. Sorcerers are generally going to be failing their reflex saves so evasion won't actually help you avoid much damage.

    Caster level is king on a sorcerer as far as effectiveness is concerned, so you wouldn't generally splash a few sorcerer levels on a monk. And if you went for a fairly even split between monk and sorcerer levels, you'd end up with a monk whose fist damage is too low to be competitive melee-wise and a sorcerer who spell damage is too low to be competitive magic-wise.

    If you want a caster/monk hybrid, your best bet is to be a high-wisdom monk at 1st level and then forever switch to cleric or druid. My two cents anyway.

    Barba777semiticgod
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    Well, being a Drow causes you to level up more slowly, since your first two levels are essentially 'drow'. So your Drow needs as much xp as a lvl 4 human to reach level 2.

    Maximum levels you can get is 30, so you could have 15 monk with 15 sorcerer or 1 monk 29 sorcerer, but it's pretty hard to hit that level caps, especially with a Drow as you would have to have xp for level 32 to have 30 combined class levels. You cannot be level 30/30.

    If you want sixth level sorcerer spells, you need 12 levels of sorc, which leaves 18 that you can put in monk.

    In that combo, I'd focus on buffs/debuffs and magical protections rather than damage spells. So, haste, stoneskin, web+free action, mage armor, improved invisibility, spells that add elemental damage to attacks, etc.

    Barba777Gusinda
  • Barba777Barba777 Member Posts: 48
    Well, being a Drow causes you to level up more slowly, since your first two levels are essentially 'drow'. So your Drow needs as much xp as a lvl 4 human to reach level 2.

    Maximum levels you can get is 30, so you could have 15 monk with 15 sorcerer or 1 monk 29 sorcerer, but it's pretty hard to hit that level caps, especially with a Drow as you would have to have xp for level 32 to have 30 combined class levels. You cannot be level 30/30.

    If you want sixth level sorcerer spells, you need 12 levels of sorc, which leaves 18 that you can put in monk.

    In that combo, I'd focus on buffs/debuffs and magical protections rather than damage spells. So, haste, stoneskin, web+free action, mage armor, improved invisibility, spells that add elemental damage to attacks, etc.

    That was kind of my plan! But do you think that I would reach level 28, let's say, with a six mebers party in IWD2?

  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    Six member party and as a Drow, no, I don't think you'll reach 28 in a single playthrough. Maybe on a second playthrough using HoF mode.

    The higher level you are, the less experience you get for kills.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 347
    edited August 23
    Levels in sorcerer class make you lose hp and bab, levels in monk makes you lose caster levels, and those classes do not even have good synergy (they require very different stats) so I´d go for a few levels in one class and invest heavily in the other instead of leveling them equally: A monk with a few protection spells and able to use scrolls or a sorcerer with the defensive abilities of the monk, depending on how you want to play.

    jsavingBalrog99Barba777semiticgod
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 4,891
    edited August 24
    Yeah, sorcerer and monk have next to no synergies. Any points spent in charisma are wasted on a monk, and any points in wisdom are wasted on a sorcerer. You'd be better off with wizard levels since intelligence at least gives bonus skill points in D&D 3.x.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,063
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Yeah, sorcerer and monk have next to no synergies. Any points spent in charisma are wasted on a monk, and any points in wisdom are wasted on a sorcerer. You'd be better off with wizard levels since intelligence at least gives bonus skill points in D&D 3.x.

    IWD2 uses the rule where monks can't multiclass to wizard and then go back monk.

    Balrog99semiticgod
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    IWD2 uses the rule where monks can't multiclass to wizard and then go back monk.
    It's useful in HOF with a Deep Gnome Illusionist/Monk. They make for excellent tanks.

    Other than that, uh, flavor?

    Barba777
  • Barba777Barba777 Member Posts: 48
    Another question:

    let's say that I have a monk and get some monk exclusive item (bracers, belt and so on...) can I still wear/use them if I multiclass to sorcerer?

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,063
    edited August 28
    Barba777 wrote: »
    Another question:

    let's say that I have a monk and get some monk exclusive item (bracers, belt and so on...) can I still wear/use them if I multiclass to sorcerer?

    Yes :)

    Barba777
  • Barba777Barba777 Member Posts: 48
    thank you all!
    I think I am going through the monk sorcerer anyway, I am intrigued by a fighter who can use some nasty spell againt foes!
    btw, how many levels as a sorcerer should i take to be able to cast some 5th level spell?

  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    You need 10 levels of sorcerer to get your first level 5 spell slots.

    Balrog99Barba777
  • Barba777Barba777 Member Posts: 48
    Another little question: let's say I want to take shocking grasp, which deals a 1d8 damage +1 per "caster level". Now, I have a level 10 monk with 1 level as sorcerer. Does that mean that I will deal a 1d8+1, or a 1d8+11?

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 347
    edited September 12
    1d8+1. Caster level is gained with respective caster classes. A cleric3-mage3 also has caster level 3, not caster level 6 in D&D 3.5. If you are playing with that setup, just pick sorcerer defensive spells, offensive ones are going to be outclassed by far. Not only in base damage, but your spell´s DC and caster level checks against magic resistance will also be so low that most enemies will easily save against them unless they have abysmal saves.

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
    Barba777
  • Barba777Barba777 Member Posts: 48
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    1d8+1. Caster level is gained with respective caster classes. A cleric3-mage3 also has caster level 3, not caster level 6 in D&D 3.5. If you are playing with that setup, just pick sorcerer defensive spells, offensive ones are going to be outclassed by far. Not only in base damage, but your spell´s DC and caster level checks against magic resistance will also be so low that most enemies will easily save against them unless they have abysmal saves.

    Ouch, that's bad...and I assume it doesn't event add to a normal touch attack, right?
    Seems like my monk-sorcerer it's growing pointless every time I dig into the rules

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 347
    edited September 12
    I suppose you can make a touch attack for 2-9 damage if the enemy does not save and do not have resistance to shock damage nor magic resistance, but you possibly deal more damage punching the enemy instead of waste a spell, and you do not have to worry to have your attack disrupted. Normal attacks do not require concentration checks like spells in certain circumstances.
    Also if you use a spell it's one attack in this turn. As a monk, you attack several times per turn at level 10.

    As a rule of thumb, in 3.5 multiclass your casters are not that great unless you are seeking some prestige class(that do not exist in IWD2). In general, you do not take more than a few levels from a class that it is not from your main caster class if you want to cast spells at top efficiency. Great warrior combinations though.

    Mage-monks make very good tanks instead, at high levels(Due to inexplicable reasons, in IWD2 they do not have the true sight spell so there is no easy way to dispel illusion defensive buffs). Do not expect them to hit as often, have much hp or use offensive spells as effectively as other classes.










    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 589
    edited September 12
    Barba777 wrote: »
    Ouch, that's bad...and I assume it doesn't event add to a normal touch attack, right?
    Seems like my monk-sorcerer it's growing pointless every time I dig into the rules
    Yes, this is precisely why so many people in the thread have said monk/sorcerer offers lower fist damage and lower spell damage without enough offsetting advantages to make it a solid option. However RPGs are not always about finding the "best" option but rather the one that works best for you. As long as you are playing on normal difficulty then IWD2 can be won with just about any character including a monk/sorcerer. Good luck!

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