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How are Monks for a beginner, or maybe Shapeshifters?

CelidonCelidon Member Posts: 8
edited November 2012 in New Players (NO SPOILERS!)
As the title states, I would like to know about the two Classes/kits. Being very new to the forums, and D&D in general, I have very limited experience with BG, but reading over the class and perks, it looks to be quite strong. I'm not very sure about the Shapeshifter kit, but it looks awesome. Any helpful advice or opinions are welcome!

Comments

  • secretfiresecretfire Member Posts: 63
    edited November 2012
    Shapeshifter will be much easier to play then a monk. Monk's tend to shine more at higher-levels, as they were really balanced for BG2. Shapeshifters can immediately turn into a werewolf, which will let you basically roll right over many things.

    This is assuming it works like Tutu (A mod to port BG1 into BG2) - since one of the new characters is a monk, and presumably they'd have tested him, I may be wrong.
  • CelidonCelidon Member Posts: 8
    edited November 2012
    Excellent! Thank you for the reply. Reading through the forums, I really didn't see many people talking about these two things, so I wasn't sure how it would go for someone with little to no experience. I'd also love to hear other people's opinions, or if anyone else has extra insight, I'd love to hear it. The more info I can gather, the better!
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    They're both horrible. Monks are EXTREMELY weak until 12+ (i.e. A bit into the sequel), and shapeshifters (unless they've corrected them without my knowledge) don't get the proper bonuses in their werewolf forms making them sub-par and a waste of space till 13+ (very mid sequel)...which they become decent for about 1/2 a chapter and then can't deal any damage to strong enemies while shapeshifted and become useless, save for their spell casting..so..you're better off as any other type of druid unless you're deadset on roleplaying a shapeshifter. The totemic and avenger are both about the same, the totemic has summons that are decently strong in BG1 and remain useful as meat shields throughout the game and the avenger gets somewhat useful shapeshifts, sword spider form is brokenly powerful in BG1 and have the best spell casting of any druid.
  • CelidonCelidon Member Posts: 8
    ZanathKariashi said:

    They're both horrible. Monks are EXTREMELY weak until 12+ (i.e. A bit into the sequel), and shapeshifters (unless they've corrected them without my knowledge) don't get the proper bonuses in their werewolf forms making them sub-par and a waste of space till 13+ (very mid sequel)...which they become decent for about 1/2 a chapter and then can't deal any damage to strong enemies while shapeshifted and become useless, save for their spell casting..so..you're better off as any other type of druid unless you're deadset on roleplaying a shapeshifter. The totemic and avenger are both about the same, the totemic has summons that are decently strong in BG1 and remain useful as meat shields throughout the game and the avenger gets somewhat useful shapeshifts, sword spider form is brokenly powerful in BG1 and have the best spell casting of any druid.

    Well, that's disappointing to hear. For some reason both of those options stood out the most to me, but I really don't want to make it harder on myself than I need to.
  • Mad_SweeneyMad_Sweeney Member Posts: 12
    All I've ever heard from other players is that Monks are incredibly weak at low levels. They're not recommended for beginners because they make the game even harder, and for many BG is already difficult enough. Even in Baldur's Gate 2, a monk is said to have an uphill climb compared to every other class. I read in another forum this post from a guy named Aramis (he created the Lost Items mod):

    "Monks are missing the WIS bonus to AC (Thanks Bioware!) and are certifiable pussies. Even in Baldur's Gate II monks are generally considered weak until around level 12. In Baldur's Gate they are pathetic, bruised, bleeding, simpering fools. At the beginning of Baldur''s Gate monks that have greater than 15 WIS will receive a permanent +3 AC and +1 - it makes them playable but by no means overpowered. At level 5 my monk had about the same kill/xp record as Imoen just using a short bow. If carried over to Baldur's Gate 2 I doubt that the bonus would ever overpower them, since by the time AC gets really high it really isn't an issue anymore, and it is in the AD&D rules after all. Well, the AC bonus at least - the THAC0 bonus is to make up for the readily available +1 weapons in Baldur's Gate."

    I've never played as a druid, but if you go monk, I'd follow Aramis's advice and get that 15 WIS.

    http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Classes_and_Kits

    The site I just posted above has a rundown of every class and kits various strengths and weaknesses, I highly recommend it if you're still unsure.
  • FatalFatal Member Posts: 54
    The moment you get iron skin and greater werewolf form, you'll wont be beat so easily.
  • secretfiresecretfire Member Posts: 63
    edited November 2012
    I don't care how messed up the basic Werewolf form is, its still a werewolf available from level 1. I remember playing it in BG2 and being fairly impressed. I admit, there are long-standing known bugs, but, I'll say again. Werewolf. At. Level One. If you feel like playing it, you won't be hideously awful, I don't think, not in BG1.

    Edit: Confirmed. I'm currently running around as a werewolf and !@#!#@ the hell out of everything in my path. This is overpowered, actually. I've pretty much killed every enemy I can find in one round. You are certainly getting enough 'werewolf bonuses' to kill the heck out of things, and Beamdog has thought ahead to allow you to dialog in werewolf form, as far as I can tell. The major problem will be that you start off really powerful, and slowly get weaker as the game goes on, rather then starting off super-weak and getting powerful.
    Post edited by secretfire on
  • MorvianMorvian Member Posts: 24
    edited November 2012
    Yeah, Shapeshifter will destroy BG1. Even Enhanced Edition. Monk on the other hand is awful. The new character is a perfect example. He is the number 1 source of my reloads so far because he dies almost every encounter. I only picked him up because I wanted the new dialogue. I might drop him though if he doesn't improve.
  • CelidonCelidon Member Posts: 8
    I think the Shapeshifter interested me the most, and that's great if it can do well in BG1, but if it will struggle in BG2, and doesn't have the ability to hit certain enemies that require +4... That would be such a waste of time leveling it.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    Actually a shapeshifter can't hit enemies requiring ANY magical bonus till greater werewolf, and that maxes out at +1. (It's especially ironic when the werewolf form can't harm the werewolves on werewolf isle..an entire island requiring AT LEAST +1 to hit to deal damage and they regenerate..you don't (supposed to have 1 hp/round regen)...greater werewolf form only regenerates cause it sets your con to 25 (1hp/round), when it's supposed to have 3/round).
  • secretfiresecretfire Member Posts: 63
    By BG2 the bugs will be corrected. They are ALMOST fixed now, but BG tweaks needs to hit one more patch level before it fixes the WW bugs.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    I doubt they'll add the immunity to normal weapons the werewolf form (+1 and higher in GWW form) should get...it'd be pretty much immortal except a handful of named enemies or high level monsters in BG1..
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Tricks to using a shapeshifter:

    Don't bother memorizing a lot of spells that you'd normally cast in battle. Use things that last a long time, or help you restore HP.

    Barkskin is essentially your armor. It stacks with whatever AC bonus you gain while dropping into wolf form, and lasts a fair chunk of time. It also improves as you gain levels, so, hey.

    I don't know if this got fixed for BG:EE, but their wolf paws used to count as a magically summoned weapon which could then be dispelled by another spellcaster, allowing you to clobber people with your wolf strength while using, say, Icingdeath off Drizzt.
  • FatalFatal Member Posts: 54
    Lvl 10 monk here, feel op as it is... Getting to 10 was a pain in the ass though!
  • ShrimpShrimp Member Posts: 142
    @Fatal Did they increase the exp cap? I thought monks were limited to level 8 at 161k xp?
  • CelidonCelidon Member Posts: 8
    Shrimp said:

    @Fatal Did they increase the exp cap? I thought monks were limited to level 8 at 161k xp?

    Are you taking into account all of the bonus content?
  • ShrimpShrimp Member Posts: 142
    It was 161k with TotSC, 89k in vanilla, that I am sure of. I don't know if that has changed in EE, but I just read that the Pits limit you to level 10 whatever your class, meaning some (paladins and rangers, I think, have the slowest level progression?) would need more than 500k xp to cap.
  • AzraelAzrael Member Posts: 25
    edited December 2012
    I Played the Pits through and some of my people went as far as 600000 exp if I rember correctly

    Edit: Yep, My paladin had 600000
  • FatalFatal Member Posts: 54
    edited December 2012
    Shrimp said:

    @Fatal Did they increase the exp cap? I thought monks were limited to level 8 at 161k xp?

    http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj307/elitespriggen101/Baldr004.png

    Print screen as proof =) Just finished The Black Pits too!
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