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solo no-reload shadowdancer no good in duchal palace - thoughts?

SirBaldurSirBaldur Member Posts: 71
I did the solo no reload challenge with a shadowdancer - it went well, admittedly *with* a little metagaming in places - due to primarily avoiding all fights except one v one, and in those backstab, hide, backstab is super powerful in BG1. (Still easily maxed out XP before hitting the maze leading to undercity.)

However, the one place that is a total crapshoot is the Duchal Palace fight, where all the nobles turn into dopplegangers and you expose sarevok as a bad dude.

The problem is that as a thief, your attack is too light / too many misses to damage quickly. Meanwhile, you need to take out a lot of dopplegangers in a hurry to prevent the 2 town leaders from dying; if they die, it's game over, so forget about backstabbing, even hasted.

The only way i could get it to work is to use algernon's cloak on lady jannath to charm her, then cast all her protections before belt makes his speech, and then dispel magic to remove the dopplegangers' haste. However, some fair percent of the time (maybe 25% - i re-tried the scene several times after success to confirm how often the charm works), she makes a saving throw, and then you're hosed because she's too slow to get her magic going, and won't use dispel.

I also can't see how a solo shadowdancer could succeed without metagaming, since that would also mean not getting lady jannath protected up pre-fight.

any thoughts?

Comments

  • SirBaldurSirBaldur Member Posts: 71
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    plus, for some weird reason those greater dopplegangers have 1 HD, which means they can fall victim to a wand of sleep
    Never occurred to me to try the sleep wand! I carried one since early in the game and it hardly worked on anything except hobgoblins

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,596
    Sleep affected the dopplegangers in the original game, but I don't remember that working in the EE.

    If you want to make more certain of victory you can charm some or all of the nobles with Algernon's Cloak and move them to separate locations out of sight of the dukes. When they turn into dopplegangers you can then tackle them one at a time. An alternative use for charm is to convert all the guards and onlookers to your side - allowing a much more effective defense for the dukes. You can even charm useful combatants elsewhere in the city and lead them to the palace (through the sewers if they're in a different area of the city).

    If you don't want to resort to that level of metagaming, remember that potions of firebreath are very effective. Even if you only use those on a single doppleganger at a time (to avoid problems with burning innocents) that can greatly increase the amount of damage that a shadowdancer could expect to do with weapons and give you a better chance of successfully keeping the dukes alive.

    StummvonBordwehrSirBaldur
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 797
    I always go outside when I recruit/charm backup.

    In the inn (on the first floor) the barmaid Ichtyl is an adept mage (greater malison and chaos is in her spell book iirc).

    The temple of helm has a priest with 2 castings of entangle - he carries a non magical long sword for melee purposes.

    The bartender in the inn is a rogue of some sort (he is packing steel at least), and lastly Petrines uncle Bheren (from the quest with the cat) also is a disposable meat shield with a sword.

    The above mentioned are my main group of back-up. There are only a few flaming fists in the area you have to avoid (they are east of the temple in the top left corner).

    Jardek and butler would be great as well if you can dodge the flaming fists (or even better recruit them as well), but the butler is an elf and can’t be reliably charmed. A shadow dancer could off course find a way up stairs.

    Ramizath is also a viable option - just wait with the last part of his quest.

    When you charm any of the above, make them attack you with a melee weapon. This way they can follow you out of their habitat and into the castle.

    Hope it’s helpful, I at least heavily rely on said backup for that fight.

    Grond0SirBaldurZaghoul
  • SirBaldurSirBaldur Member Posts: 71
    Grond0 wrote: »
    potions of firebreath are very effective. Even if you only use those on a single doppleganger at a time (to avoid problems with burning innocents)
    I’m not sure I ever knew the potion of fire breath could be used like that! Will have to try that, bec I was packing some with me already

  • SirBaldurSirBaldur Member Posts: 71
    When you charm any of the above, make them attack you with a melee weapon. This way they can follow you out of their habitat and into the castle.
    Interesting, definitely never realized that it was possible to take non npc through doors etc. but now that you mention it I’m just not too smart since they often follow me out when they’re angry and want to kill me, I just never put 2+2 together!

    StummvonBordwehr
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 797
    SirBaldur wrote: »
    When you charm any of the above, make them attack you with a melee weapon. This way they can follow you out of their habitat and into the castle.
    Interesting, definitely never realized that it was possible to take non npc through doors etc. but now that you mention it I’m just not too smart since they often follow me out when they’re angry and want to kill me, I just never put 2+2 together!

    Neither did I. I picked it up in the no reload thread
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/40393/maybe-this-time-no-reload-thread-the-tale-of-ten-thousand-trials.

    The thread holds much info about playing the game safe, and what happens if you don’t.

    In this case I think it was a run by semiticgod that taught me this particular “workaround”. She is a very gifted player, and usually have unusual solutions for the usual problems.

  • SirBaldurSirBaldur Member Posts: 71
    edited December 2019
    i think duchal palace is the only point in the game that a non-mage will take a big risk losing their solo no-reload challenge, esp tough for thieves.

    Post edited by SirBaldur on
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