Nalia THAC0 - [edit] resolved, not an EE bug

ithildurnew

Anyone else seeing her start out with oddly boosted base THAC0? She seems to have THAC0 about 3-4 levels better than it should be - i.e. 16 when joining as Thf4>Mage9 version. Normally a level 9 Mage should have THAC0 of 18, and needs lvl 13 to get THAC016. The level 11 version (Nalia11.cre) tops that and gets the THAC0 of a level 16 Mage, and so forth. It looks like somehow the THAC0 of a multiclass Thief/Mage rather than a dualclass got applied to her .cre files.
I don't believe I have any mods that affect companions' THAC0 so this looks like a base BG2EE bug, but I wanted some confirmation first before posting in the bug forums; can someone check their install?

https://gibberlings3.github.io/iesdp/files/2da/2da_bgee/thac0.htm

sarevok57

my nalia seems to be working in every aspect, i have game plays with nalia from levels 10-16 and they all have proper thac0

now you said that you have mods which shouldn't affect her thac0 table which makes me believe you have a mod that is probably affecting it,

if you have Near Infinity you can check the thac0.2da to make sure that table is displaying your class thac0s properly

ithildurnew

I had TweakAnthology's Unnerfed THAC0 component installed, but overrode it with the vanilla version once I realized the Tweak's current version is wonky (it actually makes Warrior classes' THAC0 slightly worse than vanilla). The two versions are identical until level 21 or so anyway so I don't think that's the issue. Besides, Imoen's THAC0 is fine in spite of also being a dual Thief/Mage; it's just Nalia's CRE files that's got messed up THAC0.

sarevok57

could it be items that she is using? is she using the pale green iounstone or the gauntlets of weapon skill?

ithildurnew

No, it's not items; those items do not alter BASE/actual THAC0; they add bonuses to it.
As I said, it's the actual .CRE files that have the wrong THAC0. I can see it using NI. When she joins the party ingame, she retains the improper THAC0.
Did you actually look at her cre files' THAC0 in your install using NI? Please look at Nalia8.cre and check her THAC0.

Bubb

Looks correct in my clean install:

If you look on the bottom of your NI window, it looks like your game is pulling NALIA8.CRE from TB#GEN20.BIF, which is created by generalized biffing. Maybe a mod is altering your file after all?

ithildurnew

I have NPC Kitpack v5 installed giving both Imoen and Nalia the Adventurer kit for their Thief side. But it doesn't shouldn't have any impact on THAC0 or the original CRE file; what it does is once either of them join the party (i.e. only the savegame cre file is altered) it boosts Find Traps/Pick Locks while eliminating backstab multiplier and changing the class title to 'Adventurer/Mage'. Also, Imoen doesn't have any THAC0 issues; it's just Nalia, which is odd.

SCS has a component that fixes wacky THAC0 for critters, but I assumed that's only non joinables... I can't think of any installed mod that I have that alters THAC0 for joinable cre files.

Regardless, thanks for confirming that vanilla/clean install does have proper THAC0 for Nalia, so it's something in my install.

sarevok57

have you tried leveling her up yet?

even if joinable companions have improper thac0/saving throws when they level up it should fix itself
because the game bases stats of characters off of the 2da files

ithildurnew

Not quite; unless EE changed this from classic, I'm 99% sure improperly too-good THAC0 eventually 'fixes' itself when the character's level is high enough that it matches the correct progression, then from there it follows the 2da. Until then, it remains higher than it should be unless manually tweaked via editing the savegame cre file. This was (and still is) a long standing issue with the Unfinished Business Minsc quest thac0 bug.

sarevok57

indeed, i just tested it myself, and that seems to be the way it works

it weird really, i remember when ToB came out and Sarevok's save vs breath was 1 better than it should have been so every time he grew up a level he would gain a -1 to save vs breath