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Would this build be too overpowered?


I've been playing the cleric/mage with SCS, no-reload. Unfortunately, I died. It was not a solorun.

So, being a very fun class to play I decided to run again, but this time I was looking at the gnome cleric/illusionist because of the extra spellslots per day. Playing a mage is pain in the ass with the slow multiclass leveling.

However, I really don't get any feeling from being a gnome. I have a hard time to put me in the role as a gnome etc.

Would it be considered a cheat if I'd use EE Keeper to give my half-elf, a specialist mage/cleric? I've noticed that I can do so, and then remove the kit-class. The extra spellslots per day is still there.

What do you think?


  • MWOMWO Member Posts: 191
    I wonder why gnomes are the only race that can multiclass as a specialist mage. Must have something to do with the 2nd edition.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,100
    Yeah, 2nd edition has a lot of weird rules. A gnome multiclassing a specialist mage is notably more powerful than many races, and more powerful than a half elf in particular, in the same class combo. So don't worry about the power.

    Half elves. Their big thing multiclassing thing in 2nd edition was that they could take any valid multiclass combo and subtitute Fighter for Ranger or Cleric for Druid, despite ranger and druid not generally being something you can multiclass.

    This manifests in Baldur's Gate as the half elf being the only class that can be a Ranger/Cleric or a Fighter/Druid. In this case it works in the opposite direction, since the benefits of being a ranger or druid arguably compensate for the fact that you're a half elf, and thus don't get any of the benefits you'd get from being fighter/cleric of a more powerful race.

  • MWOMWO Member Posts: 191
    How does the current 5e dnd rules work? I mean, would it be overpowered to say multiclass e.g. a cleric/diviner in Baldur's Gate as a half-elf? I noted that when I add a specialist mage kit via EE Keeper, the opposite school doesn't seem to take effect - meaning being able to cast all spells.

    As a gnome you can MC a C/I which is good enough. With the shorty bonuses from being a gnome it's a really powerful class.

    Losing skull trap and ADHW is of course a loss, but you can easily get around it with other alternatives (e.g. bolt of glory).

    Anyone know the specific dnd rule why only gnomes may MC as a specialist mage (illusionist)?

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 687
    edited February 2
    5e's multiclassing rules are pretty similar to 3rd editon/Pathfinder/NWN/IWD2, each time you level up you choose which class to advance. That's a very different ruleset than the one BG/BG2 uses.

    The specific 2e/BG/BG2 rule is that gnome mages are always illusionists whether they want to be or not, because gnomes are said to have a special affinity for illusion magic. That restriction holds whether they are singleclass or multiclass, though I wouldn't really count it as a "weakness" since specialist mages are so much stronger than unkitted mages in BG/BG2.

  • MWOMWO Member Posts: 191
    Hmm, I'm feeling kinda bad adding/changing the 2nd edition rules via EE Keeper... I guess I'll just stick with a specialist mage instead. I'm thinking about running the game with an elven enchanter or a half-elf conjurer.

  • Very_BigSwordVery_BigSword Member Posts: 174
    MWO wrote: »
    Hmm, I'm feeling kinda bad adding/changing the 2nd edition rules via EE Keeper... I guess I'll just stick with a specialist mage instead. I'm thinking about running the game with an elven enchanter or a half-elf conjurer.

    Nothing to feel bad about. Play the game the way you enjoy and have fun with a character concept even if it is a bit outside the rules. Coran should not be allowed to have 20 dex, Aerie should not be able to mage/cleric etc. There are certainly more overpowered options within the rules, e.g. selecting berserker kit at character creation.

    To make your specialist/cleric idea work with opposition school etc I see two ways. One is to create the gnome cleric/illusionist and change the avatar to half elf in ee keeper (note you will be limited to gnome romance options). The other is to create a half elf specialist mage and then ee-keeper to multiclass cleric/mage. It should hopefully keep all the specialist mage bonus/penalties. Enchanter/Cleric or Diviner/Cleric sound pretty cool and flavoursome.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,100
    Nothing to feel bad about, but also don't feel bad about feeling bad, if that makes sense. We all have our own line in the sand. Our thing that just feels wrong, so we don't do it.

  • ithildurnewithildurnew Member Posts: 201
    edited February 3
    Changing multiclass/racial/specialization combinations is a somewhat common tweak/modding practice in the IE game community; trust me, it's nothing to feel bad about compared to some of the other stanky cheese people do on a regular basis. ;)

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,204
    edited February 4
    MWO wrote: »
    How does the current 5e dnd rules work?

    In comparison to 3e they did nerf multiclassing in 5e a bit.

    First, they made it an optional feature so you're supposed to check with your DM before leveling your character. Second, you don't get all of your second classes skills (for instance, a thief dualed to fighter doesnt learn how to use all kinds of armor). Third, most classes important skills only begin to shine at level 3 so it's not really worth the trade getting that one level in a second class rather than keep progressing in your current one.

    In 5e a Cleric 1/Diviner x would have some merit because of the extra cantrips , but just like 3e (And quite the opposite of 2e) the levels arent meant to be even as a cleric 5/ diviner 5 isn't as powerful as a diviner 10.

    Post edited by DJKajuru on
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 413
    Enchanter/Cleric or Diviner/Cleric sound pretty cool and flavoursome.

    Enchanter/Cleric seems pretty cool indeed. Many cleric spells use the enchantment school and would benefit from the -2 saving throw penalty for enemies.
    It is not overpowered in any way though, since most of those spells or equivalents are already available to the enchanter from his mage spellbook.

    And in general, tweaking race/class restrictions doesn't break the game balance (if there is any in the first place ^^), so I wouldn't feel bad about it.

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