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Quick Question: Mulahey

Is it possible to Charm Mulahey and pickpocket the letters from him?
Could you get to Chapter 3 without killing him?

Comments

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,977
    yup

    as long as you are not in combat and you have the letters in your inventory, chapter 3 will start

    StummvonBordwehrMathsorcerer
  • CallirgosCallirgos Member Posts: 63
    Good to know.

    Can his Holy Symbol be pickpocketed? Its in his quick item slot, but I'm not sure if EE allows you to pickpocket those.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,977
    i'm also going to go with yes, it is a droppable item, and its not flagged as a critical quest item, so i don't see why you couldn't

  • monicomonico Member Posts: 413
    Dammit, it means that I killed a non necessary enemy during my pacifist run!

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,723
    I'm fairly sure I tried this when doing no-XP runs (those are possible up to Sarevok, but you get quest XP for his death whether you're responsible for it or not). I don't think the letters can be pickpocketed in BGEE, but the trigger associated with Mulahey is definitely something that's been changed from vanilla BG and the behavior may be different there (and mods could affect it as well). In unmodded BGEE I think the chapter trigger is something like:
    - Mulahey is dead
    - the appropriate letter is in inventory
    - you're inside Mulahey's cave.

    monico
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 413
    Grond0 wrote: »
    I'm fairly sure I tried this when doing no-XP runs (those are possible up to Sarevok, but you get quest XP for his death whether you're responsible for it or not). I don't think the letters can be pickpocketed in BGEE, but the trigger associated with Mulahey is definitely something that's been changed from vanilla BG and the behavior may be different there (and mods could affect it as well). In unmodded BGEE I think the chapter trigger is something like:
    - Mulahey is dead
    - the appropriate letter is in inventory
    - you're inside Mulahey's cave.

    Is it cumulative then ? No workaround not killing him ?

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,723
    As far as I'm aware, Mulahey has to die - as do Davaeorn, the dopplegangers at the palace and Sarevok. You don't have to kill any of those though, so it's possible to complete a BGEE run with zero kills on your stats.

    monico
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 413
    That is also what I gathered from my pacifist run, but @sarevok57 made me doubt it ^^

    If I am not wrong, the mandatory deaths are:
    - 9 in BG1 (Mulahey, Davaeorn, 6 doppelgangers, Sarevok)
    - 32 in BG2 (4 mephit portals, 3 from Aran Linvail's tasks, 13 in Spellhold's maze, Bodhi+3 vampires, 6 elemental guardians in the tree of life, Sarevok & Irenicus in hell)

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,977
    ah, it is true, i just tested it out and you can only pick pocket his holy symbol and his ring of holiness and that was with a pick pocket score of 200%

    and for the 6 dopplegangers YOU dont have to kill them, you can just get the guards and belt to kill them instead :)

  • monicomonico Member Posts: 413
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    and for the 6 dopplegangers YOU dont have to kill them, you can just get the guards and belt to kill them instead :)

    They still need to die though. And if you don't help the guards & dukes (with damage or buffs/rebuffs), they will most surely die, so you can't just stand idly by.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,977
    monico wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    and for the 6 dopplegangers YOU dont have to kill them, you can just get the guards and belt to kill them instead :)

    They still need to die though. And if you don't help the guards & dukes (with damage or buffs/rebuffs), they will most surely die, so you can't just stand idly by.

    they can be affected by emotion hopelessness and hold monster, and in fact i believe these dopplegangers for whatever reason have very low hit dice so even sleep spells work on them ( there is a wand of sleep in a container upstairs that can be used on them )

    Balrog99StummvonBordwehr
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,510
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    monico wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    and for the 6 dopplegangers YOU dont have to kill them, you can just get the guards and belt to kill them instead :)

    They still need to die though. And if you don't help the guards & dukes (with damage or buffs/rebuffs), they will most surely die, so you can't just stand idly by.

    they can be affected by emotion hopelessness and hold monster, and in fact i believe these dopplegangers for whatever reason have very low hit dice so even sleep spells work on them ( there is a wand of sleep in a container upstairs that can be used on them )

    Sounds like a perfect job for Xan!

    sarevok57monico
  • LarkusLarkus Member Posts: 52
    edited February 13
    monico wrote: »
    If I am not wrong, the mandatory deaths are:
    - 9 in BG1 (Mulahey, Davaeorn, 6 doppelgangers, Sarevok)
    - 32 in BG2 (4 mephit portals, 3 from Aran Linvail's tasks, 13 in Spellhold's maze, Bodhi+3 vampires, 6 elemental guardians in the tree of life, Sarevok & Irenicus in hell)
    It's been a while since I made my attempt at a pacifist run, back in vanilla BG2. I was cheesing the hell out of the game, but I could get around all of the deaths until the Spellhold Slayer dream sequence, which increases your kill count by two (practically unavoidable).

    Mephit portals: I cheesed myself through the locked door with the Polymorph Self trick - change yourself into something with a bigger circle (such as a mustard jelly) and you get placed at the next free space, which may be on the other side of a door/wall if you block the other spaces (I even managed to keep my suspension of disbelief relatively intact, just pretending I oozed myself under the door).

    Aran Linvail's tasks and many others: I made use of the fact that you can avoid a kill count by letting your Projected Image cast Flesh to Stone. Then you can return to collect the quest reward and reverse the stoning later.


    Grond0monico
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 588
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    monico wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    and for the 6 dopplegangers YOU dont have to kill them, you can just get the guards and belt to kill them instead :)

    They still need to die though. And if you don't help the guards & dukes (with damage or buffs/rebuffs), they will most surely die, so you can't just stand idly by.

    they can be affected by emotion hopelessness and hold monster, and in fact i believe these dopplegangers for whatever reason have very low hit dice so even sleep spells work on them ( there is a wand of sleep in a container upstairs that can be used on them )

    Sounds like a perfect job for Xan!

    So we're not all doomed then?

    monico
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 413
    edited February 13
    Larkus wrote: »
    monico wrote: »
    If I am not wrong, the mandatory deaths are:
    - 9 in BG1 (Mulahey, Davaeorn, 6 doppelgangers, Sarevok)
    - 32 in BG2 (4 mephit portals, 3 from Aran Linvail's tasks, 13 in Spellhold's maze, Bodhi+3 vampires, 6 elemental guardians in the tree of life, Sarevok & Irenicus in hell)
    It's been a while since I made my attempt at a pacifist run, back in vanilla BG2. I was cheesing the hell out of the game, but I could get around all of the deaths until the Spellhold Slayer dream sequence, which increases your kill count by two (practically unavoidable).

    Mephit portals: I cheesed myself through the locked door with the Polymorph Self trick - change yourself into something with a bigger circle (such as a mustard jelly) and you get placed at the next free space, which may be on the other side of a door/wall if you block the other spaces (I even managed to keep my suspension of disbelief relatively intact, just pretending I oozed myself under the door).

    Aran Linvail's tasks and many others: I made use of the fact that you can avoid a kill count by letting your Projected Image cast Flesh to Stone. Then you can return to collect the quest reward and reverse the stoning later.


    I don't get what you mean with the Spellhold Slayer dream sequence ? Who do you refer to ? There's no mandatory kills in the dream sequences I can remember of.

    About the mephit portals and the mustard jelly/door trick, I remember seeing a speedrun video way back that used this trick, I'll have to try it sometime just for giggles !

    About the kill count: I'm listing mandatory deaths, not your character sheet. Summons, charmed NPCs, etc., can kill the target for you so that it doesn't appear in your character kill count, but they are still dead.
    RP-wise, I did the same as you and used Flesh to Stone on those enemies to advance the quest, then freed them later.

    But still, those are just workarounds. Except for the mephits were you just need to find a way to pass that door, the ENGINE requires the listed enemies to "die" so that you can progress in the game.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 2,850
    I once modded Mulahey to cast Unholy Blight if the protagonist's alignment was good. After he killed 4 out of the 6 party members in the first round I decided that probably was not a good idea.

    monicosarevok57Pokota
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