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Question on Lilarcor appearance

Hey.

I cannot quite get what it is on the hilt of Lilarcor greatsword in the BGII picture.
vfiracyhnut9.png

Cannot find any appearance description of it. Do you know what it looks like, or do you have your own visualization?

Since I had no idea what is on the hilt I always visualized shape of human who hugs blade, grip and guard, all at once, holding them together.

Rik_Kirtaniyaiosfrustration

Comments

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,904
    Have no clue what it is, but it sure looks painful to wield if you're not wearing a gauntlet!

    Rik_KirtaniyaThacoBell
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,741
    To me, it looks like a piece of coarse rope, that's being used to hold the handle together. Maybe the handle is somewhat broken? It looks somewhat like this to me. It's not exactly the same configuration, but you get the idea.
    a-dagger-for-navy-officers-in-long-version-circa-1900-stabbing-blade-of-diamond-section-with-maritime-etching-on-both-sides-corroded-turban-and-anchor-mark-within-the-forte-with-double-fullers-brass-hilt-traces-of-gilding-with-scabbard-lock-pommel-in-the-form-of-a-turban-ivory-grip-without-additional-wire-wrap-vertically-recurved-quillons-brass-scabbard-with-two-carrying-rings-the-dagger-comes-with-original-bound-gold-sword-knot-which-is-however-heavily-worn-and-damaged-signs-of-age-and-wear-length-ca-51-cm-worn-piece-in-good-co-additional-rights-clearance-info-not-available-TA5ECN.jpg
    But then again, when I see the icon image latest?cb=20130413140945, it looks as if the structure around the hilt is made of the same golden metal as the hilt. From this icon, it still looks like a loop of rope. Maybe, it's just a generic ornate design?

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    Its clearly a gun grip and trigger. Lilarcor has secretly been a gunblade all these years!

    iosfrustrationRik_KirtaniyaBalrog99Zaxares
  • iosfrustrationiosfrustration Member Posts: 153
    Lilarcor is a great example of the love and attention to detail that was lavished on BG2 by its makers.

    I can see the design team now. “Ok lads, any idiot can make a talking sword, that trope is tired. Let’s subvert expectations, THIS talking sword is going as mad as a sack full of badgers”

    And it’s fully voiced, and it sometimes gives semi-useful advice, and it shrieks abuse.

    Comedy that is consistent with the game world it exists within. Brilliant!

    Rik_KirtaniyaThacoBell
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    Based on the picture, the hilt (handle) itself, it is a smooth surface, this would indicate wood bone or ivory sanded of course out of detail from the picture to a comfortable grip, magic since it is a magical sword, and one that lusts for battle would allow the grip to mold to the user's grip since it is a +3 magic sword.

    The drawing down the side of the hilt would be called a down swept guard, or a quillion, it serves both 2 purposes, as a downawept guard and to make the piece more ornate (pretty) one could assume lilarcor is actually a rather fine and beautiful sword since it is a +3. This would visually add to that and add to the purpose of the guard.

    A guard is designed not to protect the users hands from counter strikes but to prevent the users hands from riding up over what's called the ricosso (a dull point before you hit the sharp blade) into the sharp part of the blade and thus damaging their own hands when delivering a hard strike or thrust. (Look at your kitchen knives, you'll see about a 3/4 inch dull spot before it gets sharp after the handle ends, that's the ricosso)

    If the part in the picture is a down swept guard or quillion, it also serves to re-orientate your hand once it strikes a surface, to an "index" basically the maximum best way to wield it for maximum effect while preventing your own hand from hitting the sharp nasty bits.

    The downswept quillion is forcing your hands into the optimal position to deliver a strike on the moment of impact with an object which holds true to a magical +3 sword. (Note it wouldnt normally do this irl, it would simply stop ur hands from jolting forward further and probably sprain ur wrist if u hit hard enough)

    The L at the end, look closely, you can see a small "dot" at the end. This is called a butt-cap or a pommel. A pommel is something ornate added on, a butt-cap is metal "peened" or "bent" over to secure the construction of the guard, hilt, and pommel via a mechanical connection so it doesnt go flying off the end of the sword.

    Modern knives swords ect use pins drilled through the tang to do this and keep the tang hidden. (Grab ur kitchen knife ull see 2 -4 pins thru the grip (hilt) of ur handle that hold it all together) they didnt have drills back then so they drove the tang (the metal part of the handle) thru the end of the sword knife dagger and bent the metal over to hold the whole thing in place.

    A hidden tang is one where the end of the knife sword ect never pokes out the end of the item, a through tang is the end pokes out,.

    So since they couldnt drill connections, they probably went though tang construction, and with wood or horn, you simpmy burn through. (Heat the tang up red hot apply the handle material and burn a hole through it till ur through).

    Slot the guard on, handle material, and pommel then bend the metal over to hold it all in place.

    The L on the end of it indicates a pommel, the jewel the end part, also a counter balance if you have a heavy item to make it easier to wield.

    Lilarcor is a +3 2handed sword and I dont see fuller's in the picture so using a counterbalance pommel makes sense. The one in the picture is kind of raptor claw shaped or even kama shaped. Your guess is as good as mi e o the shale but pummels were ornate usually to I dictate origin and ownership.

    It's also wrapped, but important to note, the pommel is attached BEFORE the butt-cap, it's part of the handle held in place, not the actual end piece.

    A wrapping is almost always either cord or leather, leather would be more viable in this case since it is a 2 handed sword to help counterbalance its weight and be era specific.

    Either way, oddly enough, through either some sick research or dumb luck, the picture follows actual swordmaking. To achieve the +3 and sentience, that's something for another discussion.

    Ps, a fuller is those slots you see running down the side of a sword, they remove material (mass) making it lighter while not overly affecting its strength, (thus you get speed 0 1 2 3 swords) rather than a biogas heavy sword that takes forever to wind up and slam down on ur opponent, its lighter and just as big and faster.

  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    Real world using the picture?

    The handle is bone or ivory judging from its smooth lines. (Owing to magical nature it is too smooth due to no finger grips to be usable thus would kold to the users hand for optimal grip)

    The drawing down the side of the hilt (handle) suggests a rear swept quillion or guard. These are normally used to protect the hand from riding up the handle to the ricosso to the blade, not to protect the hand from incoming blows.

    Note: a quillion and guard are similar but a quillion is more decorative than functional, they add pizzazz to the piece but are part of stopping the hand from sliding up the blade. Since lilarcor is a magic sword its rightful to assume splashy flashy sword.

    It is also not connected to the guard (albeit there is a small part where it could) it leads me to being decorative.

    The guard (the big wings) are kinda ornamental, suggesting Damascus twisted style you cab make this very touch but again, it's not designed to catch a blade, it's designed to stop your hand from hitting the ricosso and up to the sharp parts. This would he mild steel. Your hand won't break it but it's not for protection against I coming, and lilarcor is magical so it's probably gonna want to look cool.

    The end of the handle has 2 major things. It has a through tang, a butt-cap and a pommel.

    From above, a ricosso is about a 3/4 inch dull spot from where the guard ends on the blade before the sharp part of the blade starts. This is an extra safety measure so you dont slice your fingers off should the guard fail.

    You can see this on every modern knife made. Look at your kitchen knife where the handle ends to the blade. It's a bit wider dull and smooth then the sharp part starts

    A tang is the part where you attach the handle to. Most swords and knives and such used what's called a through tang back in the day this is because they didnt have this cool thing called a drill.

    Anything of quality uses a mechanical connection to secure the handle material to the knife.(the knife is the blade and tang in one)

    Now adays they make them pretty by hiding the tang (the stuff they attach the handle to) but still need a mechanical connection. It's done by drilling through the tang and basically bolting either side of the handle together.

    Grab ur kitchen knife again. Them silver or brass metal pieces in ur handle? Those are the drilled mechanical connectors on a hidden tang holding ur handle on.

    They didnt have drills in the day, so what they did rather than pound a hole through (they could do same as ur knife but was more expensive and labor intensive) was do a "through tang"

    The leftover parts of the metal from the tang were "peened" or basically smashed over and flattened to keep everything in place.

    A pommel was attached sometimes on expensive stuff custom ect as ornate and counterbalance to offset the weight of the sword or knife or dagger to make it easier to wield.

    Todays stuff youd screw it on, but that requires a tap and dye to make the threads. They had em but super super tough to do back then.

    This pic has a pommel but looking at the end its peened over, gives lilarcor a "rough " edge so to speak owing to its co versions somewhat.

    The pommel in this case is not a counterbalance since it's a 2hd sword its ornate, probably owing to its magic nature. It is however wrapped, so it would be in leather cord or silk. Your guess as good as mine.

    I would hazard however because it is a 2 hand sword, delivering an overhand strike your hands would slide back on the impact hitting that pommel, held in place by the butt cap which wa through tang constructed to hold it in place and being that its curved, it would be leather wrapped to add padding.

    The downward swept quillion while ornate, because again it's a magic sword would guide the users hand to the optimal position to thrust or parry with since a quillion can guide the hands where you want to index with.

    The smooth handle construction while normally being slippery because it's a magic sword would presumably magically mould itself to the users grip and not be an issue....

    Dumb luck the pics accurate or planned? Who knows, either way, it's still a kickass sword and when it yells at my mordy swords to choke up they're somehow holding themselves wrong g I cant help but fly into a fit of giggles.

    iosfrustrationZaxaresThacoBell
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    It would look like a massive 2 handed 3 musketeers rapier imho.

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