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Jasper and Bassano riddle (spoiler alert)

SoidoSoido Member Posts: 338
edited May 2020 in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
Yesterday I botched this riddle. I don't know I just didn't think it well over and rushed the riddle, Gorion will be ashamed of me

But actually this riddle is elementary, now in retrospect

Bassano says the right door (R) is not trapped. Then I ask him is the left one (L) is trapped and he answers NO.

Scenario 1 - He is the lier

Then

R is trapped and L is the good one

Scenario 2 - He is telling truth

Then

R is not trapped and L is trapped - this is contradiction because he said L is not trapped, therefore he must be the lier. If he was telling truth he should have answered YES to my question

Thus the right one is Scenario 1 - L is the good door


But I chose R instead yesterday for some reason and messed it up

Comments

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,882
    Not surprisingly, this riddle is an old classic. I think the first time I saw it was in an episode of Doctor Who (classic series, and not a new episode even then).

    What you've posted doesn't sound like a solution - looking for a contradiction won't help, because there's no way you're getting two answers out of them anyway. Asking a direct question like that doesn't help.

    Note also that this riddle can't be beaten by memorizing the right door to open; the facts behind this one vary randomly. Only two of the four possibilities are covered, but that's still enough to scramble things. Also, looking at the dialogue options, low-intelligence protagonists can ask a wider variety of stupid questions. (Is the other prisoner lying to me? Answer: yes)
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    There's another possibility. They are both lying. The person stating the rules isn't necessarily telling the truth. In which case reasoning won't work.

    That being said, is this an interaction in BG? I've never seen it before in 20 years.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,882
    It's EE material; a side bit in Rasaad's quest. The rules are as stated; part of the explanation is that the lie/truth rules don't kick in until you ask the one question you're allowed to.

    Your reward for freeing them ... good feelings for releasing the innocent one, and a stab in the back from the other.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Ah okay, the prisoner thing. My brain refused to connect "one prisoner is good and one is evil" with "Pick a door." Thanks.
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 773
    I love this riddle - reminds me of Labyrinth
  • SoidoSoido Member Posts: 338
    edited May 2020
    I too believe that the right answer is dynamic and changes depending on your question. I cannot verify this as I don't have a save prior to the puzzle but that is what I believe is the case.

    So you can't say "Hi google, which door is the correct one in BGEE Jasper and Bassano puzzle".

    I just asked this question and google re-directed me to the "enemy of my friend" quest. Remarkable AI. But nope, it could not give me the correct answer.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,882
    It doesn't change depending on your question. The right door and which prisoner tells the truth are randomly determined in each game (before you ask a question), and then all of the questions are answered within the rules.

    If you ask the right question, you can find out what you need to know and win every time - but you do need to actually pay attention to the answer. If you ask any of the other questions, you're stuck with a 50-50 gamble.

    For example, suppose you ask Jasper if his cage is trapped, and he answers yes. That tells you that either (a) Jasper's cage is trapped and he's the truth-teller, or (b) Jasper's cage isn't trapped and he's the liar. You didn't find out what you need to know and you don't get any more questions, so you're stuck with a 50-50 gamble.
    You've reduced the list of possibilities in half with that question, so it wasn't a completely uninformative waste - but it wasn't split the right way, so the question fails. At best, any question will cut the possibilities in half; you need to find the one that makes the right split and answers the question you care about. You don't need to know who's telling the truth, only which cage is safe to open.

    And really - the dialogue in this game is multiple-choice. There are only four to seven questions you can ask (more with lower Int). One of them is right. Go through the list logically, and ask yourself what an answer to each question actually tells you.
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