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Confidence in Beamdog?

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  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    I just want that new epic isometric RTwP RPG that I firmly believe Beamdog is working on secretly right now. I hope it is Beamdog's own IP, so they don't have to worry over those fussy wizards who keep playing naughty tricks that make me sad. Beamdog, make your own IP, so that you never have to look back on those haughty wizards again! I know you are working on something big and good.
    I'd certainly be interested in buying a singleplayer RPG completely unrelated to either D&D, Axis & Allies, or WotC as a whole next time. However, if their previous titles taught me anything it's to hold off purchase until a later date. Like yeast requires time to grow, Beamdog needs a good amount of time to "grow into" their titles first. Talking from experience, that process can take anywhere from one to four years. I am willing to wait that long before I give this yet unknown "RPG X" a go myself.

  • CerabelusCerabelus Member Posts: 349
    @Rik_Kirtaniya
    @Kamigoroshi

    If that's the case I'd happily support them making a new IP.

    Is Wizards playing dirty? If so screw them.

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,227
    edited June 2020
    Silverizer wrote: »
    I wonder how these LGBT/Trans issues would be in the context of a dungeons and dragons fantasy world.

    I have read that Ed Greenwood (creator of) had stated that everyone in the Forgotten Realms is bisexual.

    Regarding Trans issues; there wouldn't be any hormone therapy and probably not gender affirming surgery in a medieval fantasy setting such as the forgotten realms. There would however be a possibility of magic used for this purpose, such as the spells like polymorph self and reincarnation.

    Personally, I would think that LGBTI issues would be barely worth concerning oneself about in a D&D setting. In a world where you have vicious orc marauders pillaging villages and towns, insidious mind flayers undermining kings and senates, rapacious dragons that can lay waste to entire countrysides, werebeasts and vampires that hunt humans/demihumans from the shadows, and clergies of openly Evil gods that advocate their followers to oppress, torture or murder the unfaithful, I think questions about sexuality and gender identity would be fairly low on the list of things to keep awake at night worrying about.

    Besides, in a high-magic world like Faerun, there are far greater options available to people with gender dysphoria. A Polymorph or Shapechange spell would provide a permanent solution for someone who wished to change their sex, or for those who couldn't afford such high level spells, a magic item that casts Alter Self 1/day would also serve a near-identical, if non-permanent, function. Considering all the weird and wondrous things spellcasters can get up to with Transmutation, Illusion or Enchantment magic, not to mention all of the cross-breeding that goes on in the Realms, I'd venture to say that gay, bi or trans individuals would raise an eyebrow no more than, say, seeing a tiefling or draconian walk down the street. To quote one of the options you can choose to reply to Mizhena with, "There are stranger things about in the Realms." LGBTI folks have the same freedom and capacity to become heroes or villains as anyone else. :)

    CerabelusPrince_Raymond
  • ShadooowShadooow Member Posts: 392
    Zaxares wrote: »
    Besides, in a high-magic world like Faerun, there are far greater options available to people with gender dysphoria. A Polymorph or Shapechange spell would provide a permanent solution for someone who wished to change their sex, or for those who couldn't afford such high level spells, a magic item that casts Alter Self 1/day would also serve a near-identical, if non-permanent, function. Considering all the weird and wondrous things spellcasters can get up to with Transmutation, Illusion or Enchantment magic, not to mention all of the cross-breeding that goes on in the Realms, I'd venture to say that gay, bi or trans individuals would raise an eyebrow no more than, say, seeing a tiefling or draconian walk down the street. To quote one of the options you can choose to reply to Mizhena with, "There are stranger things about in the Realms." LGBTI folks have the same freedom and capacity to become heroes or villains as anyone else. :)
    The reason why it has nothing to do with DnD is that especially because all this is available. If someone went to change their gender, then why should he tell anyone that he did it? Damn half the characters we know might be trans, but why should be players be aware of that and solve their issues with that transformation?

    Including anything like this in DnD is simply political decision. And I dislike any game that is trying to push some political or religion beliefs.

    CerabelusGrymlorde
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 904
    Again shape changing magic isn't a real solution because anyone can use magic to do the same thing and now you have opened a can of worms. You can wonder how often it's actually a problem when you allow it, and the answer is all of the time on NWN RP servers and table top groups. You need to disallow it or need specific homebrew to make it unoffensive because D&D wasn't made with this in mind.

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,178
    The computer games may not depict this as well, but lorewise casters that are able to permanently change your gender are incredibly rare and expensive. As are magical items to the same effect. Sure, they exist but the majority of the population is probably unaware of it and most of the rest could not afford it. Even when Edwin gets transformed in BG 2 he isn't just asking charnamr for 500 gp to get it fixed.

    The pushing political beliefs complaint I just find so very tiresome. You can't really have narratives without some thoughts about what is right, what is wrong, how society should deal with certain issues... it is especially tiresome when the mere existence of people is considered political.

    RedRodentZaxares
  • ShadooowShadooow Member Posts: 392
    edited June 2020
    Ammar wrote: »
    The computer games may not depict this as well, but lorewise casters that are able to permanently change your gender are incredibly rare and expensive. As are magical items to the same effect. Sure, they exist but the majority of the population is probably unaware of it and most of the rest could not afford it. Even when Edwin gets transformed in BG 2 he isn't just asking charnamr for 500 gp to get it fixed.

    The pushing political beliefs complaint I just find so very tiresome. You can't really have narratives without some thoughts about what is right, what is wrong, how society should deal with certain issues... it is especially tiresome when the mere existence of people is considered political.

    Now I understand why we get this crap in every media nowadays including games. Peoples actually believe it and want it. Count me out in this discussion, I am clearly an outcast here.

    Old_GithGrymlorde
  • CalgacusCalgacus Member Posts: 272
    This game is an escapist exercise. The fun is getting immersed in the challenges and mysteries. I want to spend my time solving puzzles of various forms like tricky battles and who-done-its and rooting out ancient evil cults bent on world conquest - not thinking about real world issues. So when the NPC's in the medieval fantasy setting start spouting very modern sounding rhetoric - about politics or science or anything that sounds like something I recently heard said by someone on the TV news - it breaks me out of the head space I am trying to stay in - it bursts my delicate medieval fantasy RPG bubble (and yes this sort of immersion is hard to maintain and easy to ruin so bubble is an appropriate term). Example, anyone else on here or anywhere else on earth see that D&D movie - the one with Jeremy Irons? There was a scene in that movie in which the young princess in that medieval fantasy setting said "everyone should live free and equal" as if she were running for a seat in the US Congress. Now out here in reality I might wholeheartedly agree with her but when a line like that gets spouted by a royal in a medieval setting rife with feudalism and slavery then it is horrendously bad writing and obvious political pandering.

    Also, to me this is a not a game about the intimate personal lives of the imaginary characters so I don't want stories about that no matter what the particulars ( well, unless the particulars include a secret deal with a devil or the gradual discovery of someones half-dragon heritage ) - this includes all romance options for all player characters for the same reason. That stuff is not what I signed up for when I bought a game about battling brain eating illithids and acid spewing dragons and its inclusion is a distraction unless it is just a tiny bit of npc backstory like being told in the OC that the farmers wife (hence we can surmise the farmer is probably straight) got kidnapped by the ogre-mage Dergiad. Like me, did you ever watch a movie that was advertised as being a murder mystery but then half the run time is focused on the lead detective's broken family or office politics? Did you appreciate that as much as I did? It's not that I have anything against people with dysfunctional families or career problems, it is just not what I am looking for in a murder mystery.

    Now if some modders want to create some mods with loads of content that does not interest me (gay or straight romances, gender-identity stories, politics, religion, abortion, whatever) then they are free to do so and everyone is free to play. If the players start such modules knowing what to expect then that content won't bother them, in part because when they encounter it it won't be surprising enough to break immersion.

    Bad writing for a fantasy game or novel or movie is anything that breaks immersion. To this end I think even parody can be bad. Don't remind me that your art is just a product.

    I never played that game mentioned above with the trans character - but it sounds like such a tiny part of the game that I doubt it would have bothered me if I had.

    @Shadooow as for the quotas and political angle in media these days I think you are right but I think there has always been a political angle, even in the days when those characters were excluded they were excluded for political reasons and the quota was zero. The issue to me is not just that there is politics but that the creative element is gone. Nowadays a big budget movie is likely just a remake or a sequel or worse, a prequel and almost always far worse than the original. It seems the hacks in Hollywood forget that what made any original work good was in large part its originality - its novelty and remakes and sequels don't automatically have that. When I see a remake and the main character has changed gender I think ok that is what someone involved in this movie thinks is a big creative move and I lose interest. They make characters wear different hats but they come up with no new stories or ideas. Instead they just pander to the politics du jour and it is obvious and uncreative and seems like an insult to our intelligence because they must think we are easily impressed by that stuff.

    Grymlordesarevok57Isewein
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 904
    A lot of things might seem modern to some people but aren't remotely modern. Meanwhile other things are decidedly modern but people don't notice or care.

    So the historical authenticity argument is a little weird.

    RedRodentTarotRedhand
  • CerabelusCerabelus Member Posts: 349
    edited June 2020
    @Calgacus I understand what you mean so much of entertainment has been ruined by a shear lack of creativity and some companies think doing a simple gender swap will satisfy the blue check mark requirements, they will never be satisfied.

    I said it previously we can include different people into stories but when a company doesn't bother writing them properly it comes of as disingenuous or doesn't even make sense for that setting.

    I don't see D&D as not being Inclusive to all, we have a massively wide variety of races one being Succubus & Incubus which to my knowledge are the same thing, they can change thier gender and appearance as they please.

    The only additions that could be made available is more choices to the players, if a company makes a game with a wide selection of customization they're giving people the ability to seek out new experiences on thier own without trying to force people to do that, the last few times playing Skyrim i played a Breton Female by choice because i wanted something different no one had to tell me to do that, give me options and I'll explore them when I'm ready.

  • CalgacusCalgacus Member Posts: 272
    edited June 2020
    A lot of things might seem modern to some people but aren't remotely modern. Meanwhile other things are decidedly modern but people don't notice or care.

    So the historical authenticity argument is a little weird.

    While my sense of what is historically authentic may be wildly wrong my sense of what I expect is pretty good. Of course that may make it hard for a writer to guess what will float my boat and what will sink it but that's the way it is.

    If, to me, something does not make sense in the setting then it might stick out like sore thumb. There are some elements in the base campaigns that, for me, did not quite fit the D&D vibe without being at all political - such as the stuff that seemed more sci-fi than fantasy like that golem control room in HotU with the big digital numbers in the air. I don't like the way golems are sometimes portrayed as robots - I prefer to think of them as being inhabited by a captured spirit or summoned demon. If on the other hand I was playing a sci-fi game then I would be happy with robots.

    Post edited by Calgacus on
    Grymlordesarevok57Isewein
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,227
    Fantasy has always been political to some extent, however. Even back when Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings, he was critical of modern industrial society (and the war machine complex that led up to WWI) and painted the traditional agrarian lifestyle of the Hobbits as being idyllic and peaceful. It might have been a simpler life, yes, but the life of farming communities is rarely so carefree. If you speak to farmers, whether traditional subsistence farmers or modern corporate farmers, they'll all tell you it can be quite a stressful life having your livelihood so dependent on the whims of the weather and climate, as well as factors out of your control such as global food prices being the difference between living comfortably or having to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt this year because the soy price crashed.

    Whether they know it or not, writers in novels and games are ALWAYS pushing an agenda of some kind. You simply can't escape it if you want to build drama or tension for narrative purposes.

  • CerabelusCerabelus Member Posts: 349
    @Zaxares Yeah it's best writers be inspired to create a compelling story around a political view and not make it the entire narrative, the story of Nasher Executing Fenthick to me wasn't just about Fenthick making a huge mistake but about Nasher fearing the Mob and not wanting to lose his position or perhaps the Mob coming after him...self preservation at the expense of a trusting fool.

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