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SCS Asylum Lich

I decided I would try and actually finish a full series run using SCS. I usually stop playing early in BG2 for whatever reason, but this time I have made it to chapter four.

It's been going mostly okay. I try to limit cheese, but TorGal needed to be pulled on his own.

This lich in the Asylum dungeon has completely roadblocked me for a day now. I am using the component that removed the party's equipment, and so the only magic weapon I have is this Spear +3.

The party: Charname (F11/M12), Jaheira (F11/D13), Minsc (R13), Anomen (F7/C14), Aerie (C11/M11), and Imoen (T7/M13).

Anomen is too low level to turn the lich, which I would have been quite happy doing at this point.

I thought I was being quite clever using Sanctuary and Divine Protection to tank his mob while casting Sunray. Lich is immune to that, of course.

I've tried baiting his spell arsenal out using Imoen's Mislead and Anomen's Sanctuary. Hard to tell if that's having any noticeable impact, he still wipes us out after.

I had to pull his mob away from him which I hate doing, but it essentially made no difference anyway, he has an army of summons.

I've tried using the F/M alone with Abjuration immunity, but he's got two spell strikes memorised.

What can I actually do.

No strategy too cheesy at this point. I'd CTRL-Y him but I know it'll ruin the run for me and I'd quit soon after.

Comments

  • NiziNiziNiziNizi Member Posts: 70
    Have you Spell Shield on F/M? It would block his Spellstrike, but most probably he will try to get rid of it by lower level spell removal spell. Anyway, it would buy you some time. Don't know how many 5 spell level slots you have available. In SCS, you can Breach him (when you remove his spell protections).
    You can try to expose one of your mage characters with Spell Shield at a time, than recast or run and bring another Spell Shielded (if you have it memorised on your mages) so he waste his spell removals maybe.

    I agree CTRL-Y would ruin your run. It is indeed hard with items removed and that party level. I would still try, so GL.

    Hudzy
  • HudzyHudzy Member Posts: 297
    Hmm, I do have Spell Shield. I thought I saw Spell Strike take it down and everything else at the same time, but I must have been mistaken.

    I have four level 5 spell slots on the F/M. Currently that's two SI, Spell Shield, and Phantom Blade. I could probably ditch Phantom Blade and just use more Enchanted Weapon at level 4. That would get me some Breach maybe.

    I haven't planned well at all. I mostly forgot about the items being removed, and saved up my spell scrolls for a big scribe session with Imoen.

    To be honest, I strongly doubt this party can take Irenicus anyway, so I might be done.

    After a few more attempts.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 684
    edited July 28
    Since you haven't done it yet, I won't spoil it, but don't give up if you get past the lich. There are other options available for addressing Irenicus in Spellhold.

    Bioware didn't have the guts to actually strand a party there, since chapters 4 and 5 are essentially on a railroad, and it was expected that some relatively low-level parties would attempt it.

    As for the lich, I would actually suggest trying to get his summons away from him, and down the hall where you can deal with them separately. Yes, he has a lot of them, but even a lich has limits. The constrained architecture of the map will work to your advantage by letting you essentially serialize the battle a bit.

    Once you have gotten most of HIS summons taken care of, send in your own summons to mop up his higher level spells. Even if you have to send spiders and skeleton warriors, every little bit helps. Wait until after you have dealt with his summons to make sure they are focused on the lich and don't get distracted.

    When both sides are out of summons, you have a few options, but the first is to literally just wait out his initial spell protections. I don't consider this cheese at all, because you have to either know when they should have expired, or send someone in to check - who will be visible no matter what, because invisibility doesn't work with liches.

    For the actual finale, you should be able to get by with the remaining breeches and spell shields you have available.

    Hudzy
  • NiziNiziNiziNizi Member Posts: 70
    You have SCS installed with improved components including Liches?

    You can try CTRL+M on lich and details about creature (you have to put cursor on Lich) would be displayed. At least that works with my EET. You can try. If it works you can tell me "CRE Resref", and "Scripts". It may happen that we have same files (my SCS is v33.2).
    In that case I could see how many spells he have, and take a look into script to see what he is going to do depending on your protections.

    Spell Shield absorbs every spell removal strike, be it SpellStrike, or Spell Thrust (even Lower resistance). It would keep safe your other protections.

    As I explained you could try to lure him to waste spell removals spell on every of your other mages before sending in F/M, so he waste it on Spell Shield and for example Deflection, than escape with that mage (and recast protection if you have them available more). But that is really just a try, it depends how many spell removal spells he have really, and various other factors still in that combat. But if you could deplete his SpellStrikes (and other less spell removals he would waste on Spell Shields), maybe you could end up with your F/M being not dispelled and preserve SI:Abjuration.

    As other person advised, also combine with summons.

    Undead bastard :D

    Hudzy
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 863
    At your level... there's only a lich there if you're playing on Insane difficulty or higher. The lich doesn't spawn at any XP level on Tactical difficulty and lower. If you're playing on Insane difficulty with that extra difficulty-increasing component, you really should expect a challenge.

    Also, you have more magical weapons available. Even without memorizing specific spells, Jaheira can shapeshift and you've picked up some enchanted ammo.

    Incidentally, the random liches in SCS use a script trick to choose from one of several possible creatures when they spawn in. If you try the whole thing again, you might well get a different lich, with different spells memorized.

    Hudzy
  • HudzyHudzy Member Posts: 297
    I did go for the complete install, mostly because I always remember the game being too easy. :/

    And I knew I would regret coming for Imoen this early, but I wanted her to benefit from the experience gains in Umar Temple and the red dragon place so I put those off this time.

    Resref: *W#Lich9
    Scripts: none, dw#mg81

    I did CTRL-Q him into the party briefly. He has two Spell Strikes, a Warding Whip, two Breaches, a Spell Thrust which he did use on my first Spell Shield.

    He appears to have a total of three PFMW and Stoneskins, including his prebuffs.

    PFMW is nothing really, I think I wasted those just walking past him a few times with Mislead. I really need someone else with Breach so I can cut through those Stoneskins in relative safety.

    I will try the summon strategy as well, it looks like he has two Death Spells but that should be fine. Aerial servants might even hit him? I think they're enchanted.

  • ReticentReticent Member Posts: 109
    If you have a full SCS install with IWD spells, Druids should have powerful anti-undead conjure weapon spells at levels 3 and 4. Star Metal Cudgel with Jaheira should be pretty effective.

    HudzyStummvonBordwehr
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 863
    Yes, aerial servants have magical weapons - +4, although all you need to hit a lich is +1.

    Now, don't bother trying to summon a nishruu - that summon (and the 7th level hakeashar version) don't have magical attacks. They can hit mages with PfMW up, but they're useless against liches except maybe to draw out a Death Spell.

    HudzyStummvonBordwehr
  • NiziNiziNiziNizi Member Posts: 70
    No, our installs differest to some degree. But by creature file, not much, your have 2 SpellStrikes, my 1. Just one Spell Thrust, and one KWW. Different script is used. I can take a look at dw#mg81.bcs, but the way SCS make scripts, I can't know is script actually still same.

    Now I will try to construct idea for you.

    Hudzy
  • HudzyHudzy Member Posts: 297
    I'm not sure how I managed to overlook this, but Imoen has Breach in her spell book. For some reason I just completely missed it.

    It's actually going a lot better after taking a break from it.

    He opened with a horrid wilting which did hit pretty hard, I didn't use any buffs at that point. He sent summons after us but seemed happy to wait in the room himself, so our summons brawled in the corridor. He's used both of his death spells and triggered at least one PFMW.

  • ithildurnewithildurnew Member Posts: 213
    edited July 28
    Now try doing that combo (lich in asylum, SCS tactical or harder setting, equipment removed from party in Spellhold) with one more challege: the Unfished Business component "Bohdi plays cat and mouse with you in Spellhold".

    All the above, plus now you can't really rest throughout the maze because Bohdi and vamps will spawn and harrass you for resting/taking too long. NOT recommended for the faint of heart, but it is what Spellhold should have been like if Bioware didn't pull punches.

    As a final finishing touch, do it on a No Reload Run.

    I've tried it a few times and I think managed to succeed without reloading once. To make things worse I think I had aTweaks fiends installed, which are even worse than SCS fiends (there's at least 1 pit fiend to deal with in most Asylum runs and the lich iirc can gate in fiends) and I think I had vanilla Breach which Liches are immune to.

    Unfortunately (or fortunately) the UB component is currently heavily bugged and not recommended on most installs; I've also been advised the aTweaks fiends component may be buggy these days so thankfully, things are not quite as difficult.

    Hudzy
  • HudzyHudzy Member Posts: 297
    And the lich falls.

    That was immensely satisfying somehow. He even chunked. Breach spam and Anomen resisting fear after we had both our remove fears dispelled somehow came together just enough to win this.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • HudzyHudzy Member Posts: 297
    edited July 28
    Ah, I did install the cat and mouse component, and then I decided it would probably ruin me so I uninstalled it before I started the run. And I had read about some bugginess.

    Maybe next time.

    This is my first run of BG2 in probably at least ten years, so I've already bitten off far more than I want to chew.

  • ithildurnewithildurnew Member Posts: 213
    Congrats; it's definitely a worthy feat no matter how you cut it.

    HudzyStummvonBordwehr
  • NiziNiziNiziNizi Member Posts: 70
    Lets try without Breach at all.

    Big question is, does he follow yoy? It would be better if he is not, but if he is he is slow. I can't reproduce same becasue creature and scripts is not 100%. But same is happening here, he seem that doesn't follow you.

    Memorise Spell Shield x 2, and SI: Necromancy and SI:Abjuration.

    Pay attention to every detail, lets try one tactical approach. Just try.

    Approach him with just one character. Have any buff, lets say Stoneskin. It is needed to trigger tim casting 3x Remove Magic. So, to lure him to waste this, is one step forward.

    It is not guarantee that he will do at first moment. He can also immidiately go for Time Stop and than summons. In any case, be at distance but is his visible range with just one charanter with buff, best Stoneskin (because I see in his script that he use 3X Remove Magic in such case).

    Besides that 3X Remove Magic, he still have one casting of 1 Remove Magic. Provoking him by going into his visual range is good because there is chance he will waste Remove Magic on your StoneSkin.

    If you manage to trick him to waste all of his Remove Magic, cool.

    So, remove Breach from all of your NPC. Set Spell Shields (ready, still not cast), and lets say minor spell deflection. Assuming they have these spells, If they not, OK, keep Breach at Imoen, it can be useful later.

    After initial start, maybe he will cast 3X Remove, maybe not. Run away. His first PfMW will wear out while he is under Time Stop. Keep in mind, he have 2x more PfmW and 2x StoneSkin.

    Lure away and kill summons. Depending which of them he spawns, one of them sometimes cast Remove Magic. At this point, your party must be protected from Fear. Kill his summons. If you are able to do that, and he is left waiting, great.

    Approach him again with one character (try with good HP, because of Horrid W.) For him, to trigger PfMW it is needed that he see you. If he cast any more summons, lure it and kill.

    Provoke him in such way while he waste last PfmW.

    Even if he follows you, keep that in mind and try to take advantage of that (I do not exactly know your area so I do not know how much you can manipulate him in case he is following you). But so fas as I can see, he stop follow when he do not see you.

    When he is run out of PfMW, Use SI: Abjuration and Necromancy. If you have Haste, use it. Attack him. This is all still risky because he cast few other nasty spells, and cast Blindness, Power Word Blind.
    And Activatete Spell Shield.

    As long as you have Spell Shield, whatever he do, he can't dispel you. Even if you did deplete him of Remove Magic, now you have SI:Abjuration and he can't do anything. Expect him to strike with SpellStrike and Spell Thrust. Pray that your Spell Shields will be enough. If he remove your Spell Shield, recast same moment.

    Keep in mind, when you provoking him before, do not use SI:Abjuration, because he is scripted NOT to cast Remove Magic in that case. So if you activate SI:Abjuration before, there is chance spell would expire, because it will take some time in this game and manipulation.

    Now, start attacking him, his stoneskins are going down. He will try to remove your protections to strip you off SI:Abjuration, but as long as you have Spell Shield you are safe. Recast it if he remove first one.

    Breach from Imoen can hasten your attempt to kill him (he no longer have PfMW so his stoneskins are going down anyway). Anyway, after he deplete mentioned spells and summons, he is not dangerous much (still have some mage spells).

    Keeping your SI:Abjuration secure, try to kill him. SI:Necromancy should help from Horrid W.

    Send that bastard to real death.

    Hudzy
  • NiziNiziNiziNizi Member Posts: 70
    Ah, as I can see now, you already kill him. Great for you. But I was writing and thinking while he was dead, LOL.

    Anyway, Congrats, GL for next fights.

    Hudzy
  • HudzyHudzy Member Posts: 297
    I have a save from before the fight so I will try that tomorrow. I definitely need to get more comfortable with properly using SI, Spell Shields, etc.

    I noticed he followed actively once he decides he will use MMM, but otherwise seemed to want to stay in that room.

    During an earlier attempt he was using a teleport to follow me anywhere on the level. Maybe Dimension Door? I can't remember.

  • NiziNiziNiziNizi Member Posts: 70
    Well, my tactics was just my best try to help. We do not have same creatures and scripts, nor I exactly know area where you are fighting. So my tactic can work nice, but also may not.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 863
    What I was saying about the random lich variation ... that group of undead includes the creature "lich01". SCS changes this creature to be a placeholder rather than an actual lich; once it's spawned in, it replaces itself with one of dw#lich1 through dw#lich9, chosen at random. Three of those are conjurers, three are invokers, and three are necromancers (in order, so these aren't random choices - #9 is one of the necromancers). Looking at some of those spell counts in my install...

    #1: 2x Stoneskin, 2x PFMW. 1x Spell Thrust, 2x Breach, 1x Ruby Ray.
    #2: 2x Stoneskin, 2x PFMW. 1x Spell Thrust, 2x Breach, 1x Ruby Ray.
    #3: 2x Stoneskin, 2x PFMW. 1x Spell Thrust, 2x Breach, 1x Ruby Ray.
    #4: 2x Stoneskin, 2x PFMW. 1x Spell Thrust, 2x Breach, 1x Ruby Ray.
    #5: 2x Stoneskin, 2x PFMW. 1x Spell Thrust, 1x Secret Word, 4x Breach, 1x KWW, 1x Spellstrike.
    #6: 2x Stoneskin, 2x PFMW. 1x Spell Thrust, 1x Secret Word, 2x Breach, 1x KWW, 1x Spellstrike.
    #7: 2x Stoneskin, 2x PFMW. 1x Spell Thrust, 2x Breach, 1x Ruby Ray.
    #8: 2x Stoneskin, 2x PFMW. 1x Spell Thrust, 4x Breach, 1x Ruby Ray.
    #9: 2x Stoneskin, 2x PFMW. 1x Spell Thrust, 3x Breach, 1x Ruby Ray, 1x KWW.
    All nine also have Protection from Fire and Protection from Magic Energy, which will be cast as prebuffs. Most of them have Protection from Acid as well.

    Not counting whatever's in their sequencers and contingencies; I'd have to look in their scripts for that. There's also the free prebuff Stoneskin from the previous day's memorization, as all SCS mages of sufficient level get. Based on this, it seems that the melee protections of two (three) stoneskins and two PFMW are very standard. An additional PFMW might show up as a contingency. One Spell Thrust, two Breach, and one Ruby Ray or Spellstrike are all standard. More than that - sometimes.

    If you want Sunray to work on the lich ... you'll need to deal with that PFME. At your level, that's either Breach or waiting 200 rounds. Also, the undead kill effect is a save vs spell with no penalty, and these liches have a base save vs. spell of 1. Unless you can weaken its saves, Anomen will deal a mere 17d6 (59.5 average) magic damage, out of the lich's 90 HP.

    StummvonBordwehrHudzy
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