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why can't I be a mage/cleric/thief multi?

lollerslollers Member Posts: 190
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
Would it be just powerful having one character able to do literally anything? The most independent characters I can think of are the mage/cleric, and the cleric/thief, and I like how seemlessly they can align with any type of group.

Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Because Bioware didn't program it in and the engine is so harcoded that you can't just whip up a new multiclass.
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,083
    Short answer: because the 2nd edition tabletop rulebook says you can't be. That rulebook governs pretty much every permissible multiclass combination in the game.

    Longer answer: It's an interesting idea! I like fighter/mage/thief in part for that reason.
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    Would think you could kind of fake it being either a M/T or C/T and having the other spells duplicated as the one you're playing as. People have made mods to create unusual non-vanilla (but permissible per PnP rules) combos, like Druid/Thief which from what I understand is a M/T with the divine spells duplicated to be arcane spells.

    But if you were a M/T you wouldn't get Turn Undead. If you were a C/T you wouldn't get 8/9/10 spells.
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 1,090
    What I want is a Sorcerer/Shaman class, but that is also apparently impossible. To me, this would be the perfect "intuitive" caster.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Maurvir wrote: »
    What I want is a Sorcerer/Shaman class, but that is also apparently impossible. To me, this would be the perfect "intuitive" caster.

    Check out Faiths and Powers (Maybe Tome and Blood?) over on G3. Its a combination.

    Personally, I'd love a Fighter/Druid/Thief. Or even better, give the multi lore and bardsong so that we have a mostly legit 1e bard.
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,083
    Interesting story, BioWare inadvertently left out a couple of permissible druid multiclass combinations because they were listed in a slightly wonky location in the tabletop rulebook. We lost out on ranger/druid, mage/druid, and fighter/mage/druid.

    Unfortunately fighter/druid/thief still wouldn't be an option, which is a shame!
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 823
    jsaving wrote: »
    Interesting story, BioWare inadvertently left out a couple of permissible druid multiclass combinations because they were listed in a slightly wonky location in the tabletop rulebook. We lost out on ranger/druid, mage/druid, and fighter/mage/druid.

    Can you say more? In my copy of the AD&D second edition PH, there's a table of allowed multiclass combos by race on p.44, and it looks as if BG does a pretty faithful realisation of that table. Is there some correction or extra bit somewhere else in the book? (I can well believe it, I'm just interested.)
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,083
    edited September 2020
    Sure, happy to do so. The half-elf writeup on page 22 of the PH mentions RD/MD/FMD as permissible multiclass combinations. Most printings of the PH also list those options in the table, but the first few printings inadvertently left them out. BioWare was using an early printing like you were and just missed the note on page 22 that RD/MD/FMD are allowed.
    Post edited by jsaving on
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 858
    Some of the valid class combinations didn't make it into the game, ostensibly because "we can't fit all these special modes on the main bar" but really because [Insert reason given by Black Isle veteran]
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    From what I understand, the explanation in pen and paper was that only elves and half elves can triple class.

    Elves and half elves can't be cleric/thieves, and as such any multiclass that would involve both cleric and thief simply does not exist.

    Why can't elves and half elves be cleric/thieves? Well at that point it pretty much comes back to the "It's all arbitrary" thing. 2nd edition was a mess of class/race restrictions that often made no sense at all mostly designed to penalize the player for not picking human.
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 823
    jsaving wrote: »
    Sure, happy to do so. The half-elf writeup on page 22 of the PH mentions RD/MD/FMD as permissible multiclass combinations. Most printings of the PH also list those options in the table, but the first few printings inadvertently left them out. BioWare was using an early printing like you were and just missed the note on page 22 that RD/MD/FMD are allowed.

    Thanks!
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Chronicler Yeah, that's the one thing I really don't like about 2e. Its otherwise my favorite rule set. Give me 2e rules, with 3e freedom on race/class combos and feats and I'm in heaven.
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 1,090
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Chronicler Yeah, that's the one thing I really don't like about 2e. Its otherwise my favorite rule set. Give me 2e rules, with 3e freedom on race/class combos and feats and I'm in heaven.

    Talk to your DM about ignoring the race restrictions? Or, for the game, use EEKeeper to ignore them.
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,083
    DavidW wrote: »
    Thanks!
    No problem and it sounds like a great possible extension for SCS! :)
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 823
    jsaving wrote: »
    DavidW wrote: »
    Thanks!
    No problem and it sounds like a great possible extension for SCS! :)

    It's fairly difficult to do. Most of the class structure is hard-coded. FIGHTER_MAGE exists as a hard-coded class choice, for instance, while DRUID_RANGER just isn't present. With a little trickery you could create a cleric/ranger kit that functions like a druid/ranger, since cleric/rangers in any case use the druid spell system. But you couldn't straightforwardly create a druid/mage, because the only template available is CLERIC_MAGE and it's hardcoded to use the cleric spell system. There are ways of getting around these limitations but they're very messy. (Others in the modding scene are much better at this than I am: subtledoctor has done some very impressive work here, though I'm not familiar with the details.)
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Maurvir wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Chronicler Yeah, that's the one thing I really don't like about 2e. Its otherwise my favorite rule set. Give me 2e rules, with 3e freedom on race/class combos and feats and I'm in heaven.

    Talk to your DM about ignoring the race restrictions? Or, for the game, use EEKeeper to ignore them.

    My game is modded to be exactly this ;)
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