Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Solo sorcerer vs Karoug

My solo sorcerer is having some trouble with Mr. Karoug. I did dispatched the gang in a funny way but still feel this is not a very safe method. For non-reload run in future, things may go awry. Anybody has a reliable way to deal with this gang?

Here's what I did. There was an earlier post with a nice strategy for this encounter. The first part works sort of smoothly. I buffed AC to -12 with potion of defense, mind focusing, and then blur. Add on Protection from evil and the slash belt. This allows stoneskin and mirror image to last long enough for my skulltraps to clear most of the werewolves. But these guys have rediculus MR, one of my skulltrap did nothing at all. I have to use minute meteors to finish them up.

I don't have the 25 strength potion with me so the fire shields+melee method is out of the picture. I used a greater malison scroll, wand of paralysis and then wand of polymorph to turn him into a squirrel. The interesting part is my minute meteors are still ineffective against this tough squirrel. Magic missle works though.
Again, there's some luck involving the wands and Karoug's MR against malison on this part as well.

Any ideas on how to do this encounter differently?



Comments

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,105
    edited October 5
    Karoug himself has no MR. Instead, he has 50% resistance to elements and regenerates 30 HP per round. Regular wolfweres have 50 MR, no elemental resistance, and no regeneration. Clearing them out before dealing with the boss is clearly the way to go.

    Against Karoug - he has free action, so stun effects such as the wand of paralyzation are pretty much the only way to disable him. Saves 7/6/5/6/5, so it might take a few tries.

    [Edit again - the free action is added by SCS, which I tend to default to since I play with it. He just has the elemental resistances, regeneration, and weapon immunities in the unmodded game.]

    Now, dealing damage to him... you have a sorcerer, so I'll look at spells up to level 4, at caster level 9.
    Level 1 spells:
    - Burning Hands: 10.33 average damage, save for half.
    - Chill Touch: Can't hit him.
    - Chromatic Orb: 5.5 average damage, chance of stun if you've lowered his saves.
    - Larloch's Minor Drain: 4 damage.
    - Magic Missile: 12.5 average damage.
    - Shocking Grasp: One attack for 2 more average damage more than the werebane dagger.
    Level 2 spells:
    - Aganazzar's Scorcher: 11 average damage over two rounds.
    - Ghoul Touch: Can't hit him.
    - Melf's Acid Arrow: 12.5 average damage over four rounds.

    Level 3 spells:
    - Fireball: 16 average damage, save for half.
    - Flame Arrow: 10.75 average damage.
    - Lightning Bolt: same as Fireball per hit, can hit repeatedly with good bounces.
    - Melf's Minute Meteors: can't hit him.
    - Skull Trap: 31.5 average damage, save for half.
    - Vampiric Touch: 14 average damage.

    Level 4 spells:
    - Fireshield (Red or Blue): 3 average damage each time you get hit, up to 3x per round.
    - Ice Storm: 19 average damage over four rounds.

    Item spells:
    - Wand of Magic Missiles: 2.5 average damage.
    - Wand of Fire (Fireball): 10.75 average damage, save for half.
    - Wand of Fire (Scorcher): 27.5 average damage over two rounds, save for half each round.
    - Wand of Frost: 14.25 average damage, about 7.5 if he saves.
    - Wand of Lightning: same as fireball wand per hit, can hit repeatedly with good bounces.
    - Oil of Fiery Burning: 9 average damage, save for half.
    - Potion of Explosions: 10.75 average damage, save for half.
    - Potion of Fire Breath: 33.5 average damage over two rounds, save for half each round.
    - Necklace of Missiles: 10.75 average damage, save for half.

    None of those will outpace Karoug's regeneration on their own, except maybe a well-aligned lightning bolt. Skull traps, wand scorchers, and firebreath potions come the closest, dealing around half of the damage needed even on a failed save

    In melee, you can do 12.5 damage per hit (Werebane dagger, potion of strength, wolfsbane charm, Legacy of the Masters), attacking twice per round with an oil of speed. If you stun him, that's 25 damage per round; add some spells and you can outpace him easily.
    The 25 strength potion would increase this damage to 49 per round; anyone but a monk or cleric could kill Karoug that way.

    So, then, here are some strategies I see as viable:

    1. Melee and magic combined. Stun him, wield the werebane dagger with the buffs noted above, and add some wand scorchers between your attacks.
    2. Mirror bolts. Drink a potion for lightning immunity, then line up a lightning bolt to reflect off the walls and hit him many times. Stunning him for better aim helps, and you can use a wand for the lightning. Repeat the bolts as needed until he's dead.
    3. Stop hitting yourself! Cast fireshields, then cast Wraithform for several rounds of immunity to his attacks. Worsen your AC if possible, supplement the fireshield damage with melee attacks and wand scorchers.
    4. Squirrel! Lower his maximum HP with Polymorph Other (or the wand of polymorphing), finish him with just about anything.

    You noted that minute meteors didn't work - that's because they're not silver. Of the spell weapons a mage gets, only Shocking Grasp can hit the lycanthrope bosses.

    [Edit - I missed the save on wand scorchers. They're merely one of the best options for sustained damage, not the ultimate option I thought they were]

    Post edited by jmerry on
    Grond0cloudsatStummvonBordwehr
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,516
    jmerry wrote: »
    Karoug himself has no MR. Instead, he has 50% resistance to elements and regenerates 30 HP per round. Regular wolfweres have 50 MR, no elemental resistance, and no regeneration. Clearing them out before dealing with the boss is clearly the way to go.

    Against Karoug - he has free action, so stun effects such as the wand of paralyzation are pretty much the only way to disable him. Saves 7/6/5/6/5, so it might take a few tries.

    Now, dealing damage to him... you have a sorcerer, so I'll look at spells up to level 4, at caster level 9.
    Level 1 spells:
    - Burning Hands: 10.33 average damage, save for half.
    - Chill Touch: Can't hit him.
    - Chromatic Orb: 5.5 average damage, chance of stun if you've lowered his saves.
    - Larloch's Minor Drain: 4 damage.
    - Magic Missile: 12.5 average damage.
    - Shocking Grasp: One attack for 2 more average damage more than the werebane dagger.
    Level 2 spells:
    - Aganazzar's Scorcher: 11 average damage over two rounds.
    - Ghoul Touch: Can't hit him.
    - Melf's Acid Arrow: 12.5 average damage over four rounds.

    Level 3 spells:
    - Fireball: 16 average damage, save for half.
    - Flame Arrow: 10.75 average damage.
    - Lightning Bolt: same as Fireball per hit, can hit repeatedly with good bounces.
    - Melf's Minute Meteors: can't hit him.
    - Skull Trap: 31.5 average damage, save for half.
    - Vampiric Touch: 14 average damage.

    Level 4 spells:
    - Fireshield (Red or Blue): 3 average damage each time you get hit, up to 3x per round.
    - Ice Storm: 19 average damage over four rounds.

    Item spells:
    - Wand of Magic Missiles: 2.5 average damage.
    - Wand of Fire (Fireball): 10.75 average damage, save for half.
    - Wand of Fire (Scorcher): 27.5 average damage over two rounds.
    - Wand of Frost: 14.25 average damage, about 7.5 if he saves.
    - Wand of Lightning: same as fireball wand per hit, can hit repeatedly with good bounces.
    - Oil of Fiery Burning: 9 average damage, save for half.
    - Potion of Explosions: 10.75 average damage, save for half.
    - Potion of Fire Breath: 33.5 average damage over two rounds, save for half each round.
    - Necklace of Missiles: 10.75 average damage, save for half.

    None of those will outpace Karoug's regeneration on their own, except maybe a well-aligned lightning bolt. Scorcher mode wands of fire come the closest.

    In melee, you can do 12.5 damage per hit (Werebane dagger, potion of strength, wolfsbane charm, Legacy of the Masters), attacking twice per round with an oil of speed. If you stun him, that's 25 damage per round; add some spells and you can outpace him easily.
    The 25 strength potion would increase this damage to 49 per round; anyone but a monk or cleric could kill Karoug that way.

    So, then, here are some strategies I see as viable:

    1. Melee and magic combined. Stun him, wield the werebane dagger with the buffs noted above, and add some wand scorchers between your attacks.
    2. Mirror bolts. Drink a potion for lightning immunity, then line up a lightning bolt to reflect off the walls and hit him many times. Stunning him for better aim helps, and you can use a wand for the lightning. Repeat the bolts as needed until he's dead.
    3. Stop hitting yourself! Cast fireshields, then cast Wraithform for several rounds of immunity to his attacks. Worsen your AC if possible, supplement the fireshield damage with melee attacks and wand scorchers.
    4. Squirrel! Lower his maximum HP with Polymorph Other (or the wand of polymorphing), finish him with just about anything.

    You noted that minute meteors didn't work - that's because they're not silver. Of the spell weapons a mage gets, only Shocking Grasp can hit the lycanthrope bosses.

    All good suggestions. Laying a few skull traps out of his sight and then leading him into them is another possibility (using MGoI if you're not confident about staying out of the area of effect yourself).

    cloudsatStummvonBordwehr
  • cloudsatcloudsat Member Posts: 18
    Thanks for the advice. If Karoug has no MR, with malison+paralysis's 8 penalty to save and his save to wand, it shouldn't be too hard to disable him. I am not that sure about the fire shields though. Without 25 strength, thac0 might be a issue. I will try adding a potion of power and see if he can last longer than the fire shields.
    As for the skulltraps, I used them all trying to clear the werewolves. I have to throw in a few fireball from the wand and use minute meteors to finish them off. I guess I can leave and rest again before I go back but I hope I don't have to do that. I did rest once before the top level. I am wondering if it's possible to clear the whole boat without resting at all.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 890
    The problem with Karoug isn't disabling him, it's getting past his fast regeneration. You would have to get lucky with every single attack to have a shot at dropping him before your sorcerer runs out of steam.

    In my last run, I got down to just Karoug several times before finally dropping him, even with two tanks up front with oils of speed on both. They would get him down to near death, only to have the magic users run dry and watch him return to full health. Greater malison does help a lot, btw.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,105
    In my last run ... Shar-Teel took him down in two hits, before any of the other three warriors with silver weapons could engage. That wasn't particularly good luck, either; her initial backstab had a nearly 40% chance of killing him outright.

    The run before that, with no silver weapons in use ... six simultaneous wand hits (heavens/frost), repeat three times. In retrospect, my arcanists should have gone with magic missiles for as long as their spell slots held out.

    I've never had much trouble with Karoug; the full parties I bring can dish out enough damage, especially since I use buff potions for the island anyway.
    If you're not confident in your damage rate, stunning Karoug makes a big difference. You don't have to worry about his -2 AC if he's helpless - at that point, any character with 2+ attacks with a silver weapon and 19+ strength can outpace the regeneration on their own.

  • cloudsatcloudsat Member Posts: 18
    The Karoug is not much of a problem for a full party with a fully bulled fighter-ish member. For the solo sorcerer, it's a little harder. @jmerry gave some very good advice on that. Knowing Karoug having no MR is a relief. After paralysis, either melee+magic or polymorphing should be easy. Using fire shields might require more attention to the stoneskin and mirror image. I will try that later.
    So, maybe it's asking too much have a solo sorcerer clear the whole ship without rest.

  • cloudsatcloudsat Member Posts: 18
    Six wands hitting simultaneously seems fun. I will try that in my next play through :D .

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,516
    cloudsat wrote: »
    The Karoug is not much of a problem for a full party with a fully bulled fighter-ish member. For the solo sorcerer, it's a little harder. @jmerry gave some very good advice on that. Knowing Karoug having no MR is a relief. After paralysis, either melee+magic or polymorphing should be easy. Using fire shields might require more attention to the stoneskin and mirror image. I will try that later.
    So, maybe it's asking too much have a solo sorcerer clear the whole ship without rest.

    It's not difficult if you're prepared to use items - just keep moving between levels and snipe at them with wand of fire.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,432
    Does Deathspell work against the wolfweres? It does in SoA, just wondering how it works in BG1. I realize you'd need to remove the level cap, but just curious...

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,105
    edited September 18
    Regular wolfweres are 7 HD, so they're vulnerable to Death Spell instant kill but not Cloudkill. The MR does apply, though. There are some stronger wolfweres (the ones that grant 1800 XP) that are 10 HD, and thus immune. Karoug has 11 HD.

    Where would you find those stronger wolfweres? For one, you would find them on the ship. Three of six wolfweres on floor 2 are the 10 HD kind, all four of those on floor 3 are, and so are the four that join Karoug. Daese is a mere 7 HD as a wolfwere, though.

    Your Death Spell would kill off the vampiric wolves, at least.

    Grond0Balrog99StummvonBordwehr
Sign In or Register to comment.