Try to roll the worst possible party

m7600

There's a lot of opinions on how to roll the best possible party. I thought that just for fun we could try to do the opposite. Try to make your party as horrible as you can. If you can beat the game with such a lousy team, kudos.

Tips:

1) Get the lowest Total Roll you can for Abilities.
2) Use your characters primary abilities as dump stats.
3) Max whatever ability is useless for each character.
3) Optional: don't repeat classes, as in, don't make 6 party members of the same class.

Here's my team:

Human Wizard Slayer (Charname). Total Roll: 76
STR: 9
DEX: 5
CON: 5
INT: 18
WIS: 18
CHA: 18

Human Diviner. Total Roll: 76
STR: 18
DEX: 3
CON: 12
INT: 9
WIS: 16
CHA: 18

Elf Beastmaster. Total Roll: 78
STR: 13
DEX: 13
CON: 14
INT: 16
WIS: 14
CHA: 8

Gnome Kensai. Total Roll: 75
STR: 9
DEX: 4
CON: 8
INT: 19
WIS: 17
CHA: 18

Half-Elf Jester. Total Roll: 75
STR: 9
DEX: 12
CON: 8
INT: 13
WIS: 18
CHA: 15

Half-Orc Thief. Total Roll: 75
STR: 7
DEX: 9
CON: 7
INT: 16
WIS: 18
CHA: 18

jsaving

The main thing you want to do is make sure everyone's physical stats are 14 or lower. Extra points if you don't use any strength-boosting spells, items, etc during the run-through!

jmerry

For the thief's role, may I suggest this skill build? Put all your points into Move Silently or Set Traps, overflowing and resetting to zero repeatedly. A Bounty Hunter ends up with the worst skills at maximum level this way.

Low Int on an arcane character is actually not a significant handicap; everything you need Int for, you can use potions for a temporary boost. Well, unless you go with a Dragon Disciple and take less than 9 Int. Being unable to use wands and scrolls without that boost really hurts. Suggested stat line: 14/14/11/7/14/15 for a total of 75. Round it off with a selection of terrible spells, and you're about as bad as an arcane caster can be.

m7600

@jmerry: Klutz is rad, that -3 to Find Traps is great.

Nice stats for the Dragon Disciple. I just made one, and for the spells he has Infravision, Know Alignment, Detect Evil, and stuff like that.

Grond0

It's not quite clear what the objective of the party would be. If the aim is just to ensure they don't win the game, that's easy - I can do that with the best possible party you can think of . If the aim is to use great gameplay strategies to overcome the worst possible start, then it seems odd to be discussing how to nerf characters during the game.

I agree physical stats should be as low as possible. Constitution giving minuses on your HPs is painful, as are minuses from dexterity that hurt both AC and your ability to hit targets with missiles.

If you want the worst starting party, I would just not include a thief at all - as their additions to skill points can quite quickly overcome a bad starting position. I don't think I'd go for the dragon disciple either (or any other arcane character). The low intelligence is a great idea, but can be overcome by potions (and an item once equipped stays equipped until you level up). Also, unless you're restricting game play, they will soon overcome the useless spells you give them originally.

I would suggest a party of clones something like this as the worst starting party.

Having said that though, I don't doubt that even that party could win the game ...

SixOfSpades

An alternate take on this idea:

Human Beast Master
Valygar
Rasaad
Cernd
Haer'Dalis
Edwin

At first glance, not that bad. Sure, Beast Masters were horribly implemented, but the supporting NPCs can be quite good if you know how to play them, and the party looks pretty balanced: 3 Warriors, a Priest, a Rogue, & a Wizard. But then you notice: There are NO true Tanks (nobody who can even wear Plate, until Haer'Dalis gets HLAs), and NO Thieves.

Aerie

Here is my take. I am currently doing a cursed run on these very forums. The plan is to use the Machine of Lum to reduce everyone's stats in key areas to the lowest they can go.

pvddr

SixOfSpades wrote: »

An alternate take on this idea:

Human Beast Master
Valygar
Rasaad
Cernd
Haer'Dalis
Edwin

At first glance, not that bad. Sure, Beast Masters were horribly implemented, but the supporting NPCs can be quite good if you know how to play them, and the party looks pretty balanced: 3 Warriors, a Priest, a Rogue, & a Wizard. But then you notice: There are NO true Tanks (nobody who can even wear Plate, until Haer'Dalis gets HLAs), and NO Thieves.

This looks a lot like the parties I routinely play without trying to handicap myself

jmerry

SixOfSpades wrote: »

...There are NO true Tanks...

Give me a nontraditional tank any day. Here are some stats from an endgame Cernd I've played: AC -13 with an additional -4 vs crushing and -5 vs missile. Immune to fire, cold, electricity, and poison. 80% acid resistant. 50% magic resistance. Regenerates 12 HP/round. Saves vs death on a -4, and vs spell on a 1. Fast movement.
On the attack, he's mediocre; a mere 3 attacks per round (including permanent haste) at THAC0 1 and 17 average damage.

That's the baseline stats, with no temporary buffs whatsoever. Add on Enhanced Bard Song from Haer'Dalis nearly all the time for 4-point bonuses to attack, damage, and AC. Druid spell buffs like Armor of Faith, Iron Skins, and Defensive Harmony are also available.

(There's a mod in use here, which allows at-will transformations. It slightly alters the stats of the alternate forms, but not to systematically power them up.)

m7600

Hmmm... with the game's NPCs it's trickier. I'd go for party without arcane casters or clerics. Basically just a party of tanks. I'd probably include Dorn after he falls (or rises?) and becomes a mediocre fighter instead of a blackguard.

Aerie

m7600 wrote: »

Hmmm... with the game's NPCs it's trickier. I'd go for party without arcane casters or clerics. Basically just a party of tanks. I'd probably include Dorn after he falls (or rises?) and becomes a mediocre fighter instead of a blackguard.

That is indeed a good one. In my own current play-through I have Dorn like that, and the main character Valygar has currently gone from 85 stat points to 71 stat points. Through Cursed items.

SixOfSpades

jmerry wrote: »

Here are some stats from an endgame Cernd I've played: AC -13 with an additional -4 vs crushing and -5 vs missile. . . . On the attack, he's mediocre; a mere 3 attacks per round (including permanent haste) at THAC0 1 and 17 average damage.
There's a mod in use here, which allows at-will transformations.

Yeah, that has a lot more to do with the mod than anything to do with Cernd; IIRC, a PC Shapeshifter with perfect stats (or, alternatively, rock-bottom stats), would have combat abilities virtually identical to Cernd's. Of course, the Shapeshifter kit needs a mod if it wants to compete with the other Druids--without one, Cernd pretty much sucks, which is precisely why I included him.

(Off-topic: Of course, the mods can easily go too far. There are multiple Shapeshifter mods out there, though the only one I've ever tried was the original Weimer one. That thing jacked Cernd up by an insane amount, to the point that he could be an invincible Tank just by standing there, because most enemies simply weren't capable of hurting him any faster than he would heal. Rule of thumb: If a mod makes a non-Warrior into a better Warrior than an actual, true-class Warrior, that thing is definitely overpowered.)

jmerry

For tanking purposes ... the only thing the mod I use (part of SCS) really adds is the regeneration the greater werewolf form should have had all along. You actually get better AC with an unmodded werewolf, and the elemental immunity (50% GW form + 30% druid levels + 20% Gift of Peace) still works. Weaker attacks - 1d8+9 with enchantment 2 instead of 2d6+9+1 with enchantment 3 - but still the same 3 APR. The lack of at-will transformations isn't a big deal when you get seven daily uses of the transformation ability by level 25.

A shapeshifter druid in greater werewolf form is a fantastic tank. No qualifications needed.