Cleric/Thief Multi-Class or Swashbuckler->Cleric Dual-Class

723wolf

I have been enjoying my cleric/thief for all the utility that it brings to the table. I use it as a sanctuary abusing trap finder/disabler, lock opener, dead turning, healing, buffing, trap laying, support character. I am considering making a Swashbuckler->Cleric Dual-Class and wondered if it would be worth my efforts. I would level it up in a solo/easy mode run and then use it on a heart of fury playthrough duo with a Fighter/Mage after it is a full swash/cleric. So I don't mind if it is tedious to level it up. I am thinking that I would end with 25 Swash/26+ Cleric.

The advantages of being a swashbuckler->cleric seem really nice on paper, however, I am wondering if there is anything I am not considering that would make the cleric/thief multi-class a better choice?

The way I see it, this is everything to be gained by dual-class Swash->Cleric:
1. Increased Weapon Specialization (2x limited to clubs/quarterstaff/sling).
2. Increased Positional Specialization (3x for Two Weapons Fighting Style).
3. AC/Hit/Damage Increase (+6 at level 25 Swashbuckler).

This is everything that I would lose by this option (compared to thief/cleric):
1. Backstab (meh I never do it anyways)
2. Level 30 Thief (does that matter too much in IWD?)
3. Some HP, d6 instead of d7* (*this is the average of both classes right?).
4. Race Choice; I prefer non-humans, so this is the biggest downside to me.
5. Roughly five hours to speed run IWD once or twice on easy mode.

Is there any benefit or drawback that I am not considering or is there something that would be a better choice for this combination? Shadowdancer seemed like a feasible option as well, where I could straight up shadow step away and then sanctuary my way to healing safely.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

jmerry

The hit points ... here's the way HP work for dual and multi classes.

On a dual class, you get hit points for whatever class you are at that level, and it's locked in from then on. For a thief 25-cleric 30, that's 10 levels of 1d6+Con each as a thief, followed by 15 levels of 2 each as a thief, and then 5 more levels of 2 each as a cleric. Assuming 16+ Con and maximum HP rolls (you did say you would play the early levels on Easy), that's 120 HP.

On a multiclass, your hit point rolls are halved at each level-up. A level of cleric gets you 1d8/2 (rounded down, minimum 1) up to level 9, or 2/2=1 after that. A level of thief gets you 1d6/2 (rounded down, minimum 1) up to level 10, or 2/2=1 after that. Then your Con bonus is calculated using your average level, capped at 9 (or 10 for a mage/thief). So, a cleric 30/thief 30 with maximum HP rolls and 16+ Con wound have (9*4+21*1)+(10*3+20*1)+9*2=125 HP.

All in all, a minor difference.

And 25 levels of Swashbuckler - that's 640 skill points. You have 7 skills, and an 18 Dex human gets 100 points worth of bonuses to start with. You can master everything; the only difficulties you might have are hiding in broad daylight or shoplifting from suspicious merchants. An extra five levels of thieving skill won't matter for much of anything.

723wolf

Awesome! So It sounds like the only thing I stand to lose of real significance is roughly 5 HP, but I gain the extra AC and Damage in return. I think that is a great trade off. Thanks for figuring out the hit points for me!

jsaving

Turning is quite strong in IWD if you are willing to grind XP and a swash/cleric is going to be much better at it than a cleric/thief multi.

sarevok57

also, dont forget about weapon proficiencies

when you are in swashbuckler levels the most optimal way to do proficiencies is;

x3 two weapon fighting
x2 clubs
x2 quarter staff
x1 two handed weapon style

the reason being for this is because when you hit your cleric side, you are going to max out everything else on the cleric side, and even when you unlock your swashbuckler levels again, it will not allow you to place a second proficiency slot on cleric weapons

oh, and also if you are a human with 18 DEX at level 25 thief you will have enough points to put 100% in all thief skills with 40 points left over

723wolf

I am at level 23 and noticed that I am unable to go above 1 point for sling while a swashbuckler. However, I got the rest of the proficiencies recommended. Two Weapons, Clubs, and Quarterstaff. I will have to get the point in two handers as a cleric, but that is fine, I am just about to start my journey as a cleric.

sarevok57

swashbucklers can only specialize in melee weapons, not ranged weapons

jsaving

Also note that swashbucklers don't receive an extra half an attack when they specialize, so the benefits of that second pip aren't especially large.

723wolf

Mission Accomplished! 25 Swashbuckler/30 Cleric Complete. At the final level, I have the max specialization/style possible for every compatible weapon (3x Two Weapon, 2x Club/Staff, 1x Everything Else). With a shield, I have -20 AC, not too bad for a cleric.