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For the love of god help me understand ho to play this game

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  • VanDerBergVanDerBerg Member Posts: 212
    edited April 2021
    but when it comes to "no god class" this is where i find 3rd edition to be even more broken than 2nd edition and you can EASILY make characters that can kill everything on the screen while drinking tea

    Maybe I didn't play NWN enough to figure out these god classes. My reasoning was purely in terms of levels. Compare fighter/illusionist and pure fighter or pure illusionist (or any other kind of mage) at the end of BG + ToSC. F/M will be (I think) level 7/7, whereas pure fighter will be level 8 and pure mage level 9 (or something like that). So, compared to a pure fighter, you lose +1 THAC0 bonus (and also +2 THAC0/damage because you cannot go past specialisation in weapons). So, +3 THAC0 and +2 damage. To compensate, you get all the arcane spellcasting up to level 4. So, you can throw on PfE, mirror image, blur, ghost armor, stoneskin, improved invisibility and make yourself basically untouchable by anything. Then you go sit and drink tea while your fighter kills everything on screen. Compared to a pure illusionist, you lose even less - two level 5 and one level 4 spell slot, and you get all the benefits of a level 7 fighter.

    On the other hand, at the end of NWN, you can be fighter/mage with levels 10/10 on one side, and level 20 fighter or level 20 mage on the other. And the difference between level 10 mage and level 20 mage is huge.
    in fact i had one of those go against the red dragon in NWN without any buffs and still win without using any healing potions during the fight, i think the dragon's name is klauth

    Well, I killed Klauth in 3 seconds with a pure druid using Harm (which I probably wouldn't have at that point if I went multiclass). What was problem there was that my druid had just marginally weaker to-hit bonus than a pure fighter of the same level (3/4 of a to-hit bonus of a fighter). But this is not a problem with multiclassing.
    infact every run i have with NWN in all the campaigns i do them solo style because A) team AI is absolute garbage and they are just in the way for the most part and B ) you get less XP using them and C ) because this is 3rd edition they really aren't even all that necessary granted how strong characters become in 3rd edition

    I only played OC in NWN, but it is not surprising to me you can easily solo it (if you know the game well), because it is designed to be played with only your character and one henchman. What is more surprising is that you can solo BG, which was designed for a party of 6. I don't consider myself a particularly good BG player, but I still soloed BG1 recently with a kensai, and with SCS on tactical and all the modules (apart from the improved final battle) installed. So, whether you can solo something or not does not say anything about how OP classes there are.
    sarevok57
  • OcelotOcelot Member Posts: 13
    jmerry wrote: »
    Speaking of "special effects" on weapons ... if you've done the quest in the Copper Coronet back rooms (and you should), you can buy the magical throwing axe Azuredge. It's a +3 weapon (though with poor damage), which does extra damage to undead enemies and forces them to save or die on every hit. If you have a character capable of wielding it (good-aligned fighter/paladin/ranger/shaman, not also a druid or cleric), then you should absolutely buy it and use it when appropriate. Even without proficiency, that instant kill effect makes it worthwhile against undead - such as those you face in Hexxat's quest.

    Rules of thumb on enchantment levels ...

    Everyone should have a magical weapon, as soon as possible. And the game obliges. Just in the starting dungeon:
    - A +1 dagger, good for Imoen.
    - A +1 staff, decent for Jaheira.
    - A +1 long sword.
    - A unique weapon suited to your protagonist; either imported from BG1 or matching their proficiencies, usually +2.
    - A +1 bastard sword.
    - A unique +2 two-handed sword, good for Minsc.
    - Yoshimo's +1 katana, usable only by him.
    - A small quantity of +1 ammunition.

    And once you're out of the dungeon, the merchants around Athkatla sell +1 weapons of almost every kind at reasonable prices. Plus a few +2 or better weapons, which are considerably more expensive. And you'll keep finding magical weapons wherever you go.

    Many dangerous enemies require +2 weapons to hit; a +1 weapon will often come up short. For example, stone golems and most vampires need +2.

    A few enemies need +3 to hit; you can get away with not having +3 weapons all the time, but you'll want at least one +3 option for everybody eventually, even if they're not great with it. Iron Golems and Balors fit here.

    A very few enemies require +4 to hit. They're all high-level bosses, and the only one you could possibly encounter relatively early is the demilich Kangaxx. By the time you face any of them, you'll have some +4 weapons to use.

    There is only one enemy in the entire game that requires +5 weapons to hit, and you probably won't have any when that encounter comes up. You're better off not fighting it at all, especially since you get better rewards that way.

    There's one enemy, encountered in two places, that requires a nonmagical weapon to hit. Enemy mages also frequently cast Protection from Magical Weapons. For this reason, it's a good idea for your warriors to have a nonmagical weapon available to switch to. Or, you could have your own spellcasters take down that mage's defenses with a Dispel or Breach effect.

    Who requires +5 to hit?
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,884
    Ocelot wrote: »
    jmerry wrote: »
    Speaking of "special effects" on weapons ... if you've done the quest in the Copper Coronet back rooms (and you should), you can buy the magical throwing axe Azuredge. It's a +3 weapon (though with poor damage), which does extra damage to undead enemies and forces them to save or die on every hit. If you have a character capable of wielding it (good-aligned fighter/paladin/ranger/shaman, not also a druid or cleric), then you should absolutely buy it and use it when appropriate. Even without proficiency, that instant kill effect makes it worthwhile against undead - such as those you face in Hexxat's quest.

    Rules of thumb on enchantment levels ...

    Everyone should have a magical weapon, as soon as possible. And the game obliges. Just in the starting dungeon:
    - A +1 dagger, good for Imoen.
    - A +1 staff, decent for Jaheira.
    - A +1 long sword.
    - A unique weapon suited to your protagonist; either imported from BG1 or matching their proficiencies, usually +2.
    - A +1 bastard sword.
    - A unique +2 two-handed sword, good for Minsc.
    - Yoshimo's +1 katana, usable only by him.
    - A small quantity of +1 ammunition.

    And once you're out of the dungeon, the merchants around Athkatla sell +1 weapons of almost every kind at reasonable prices. Plus a few +2 or better weapons, which are considerably more expensive. And you'll keep finding magical weapons wherever you go.

    Many dangerous enemies require +2 weapons to hit; a +1 weapon will often come up short. For example, stone golems and most vampires need +2.

    A few enemies need +3 to hit; you can get away with not having +3 weapons all the time, but you'll want at least one +3 option for everybody eventually, even if they're not great with it. Iron Golems and Balors fit here.

    A very few enemies require +4 to hit. They're all high-level bosses, and the only one you could possibly encounter relatively early is the demilich Kangaxx. By the time you face any of them, you'll have some +4 weapons to use.

    There is only one enemy in the entire game that requires +5 weapons to hit, and you probably won't have any when that encounter comes up. You're better off not fighting it at all, especially since you get better rewards that way.

    There's one enemy, encountered in two places, that requires a nonmagical weapon to hit. Enemy mages also frequently cast Protection from Magical Weapons. For this reason, it's a good idea for your warriors to have a nonmagical weapon available to switch to. Or, you could have your own spellcasters take down that mage's defenses with a Dispel or Breach effect.

    Who requires +5 to hit?

    from what i recall there are 2 enemies;

    1st,
    is the werewolf lady in the shade lord temple area, if she goes into werewolf form and you make her hostile you need +5 weapons to hit her ( although she can still be damaged by spells and but she does have magic resistance ) although, silver weapons might be able to hit her as well, not 100% sure

    more likely than not, you won't be making her hostile if you meet her, and even if you did worse case scenario she can easily be taken down by spells if need be

    2nd,
    the lesser demon lord in the underdark at the end of chapter 5, but the only way to fight him is to make the matron mother hostile by having the lesser demon lord tell her of your identity, if you betray both the matron mother and phaere ( when it comes to the dragon eggs ) then you will not be fighting the demon lord - which is the best path to take anyway

    and "technically a third"
    any spell caster that casts improved mantle on themselves, that spell makes them immune to all to all weapons that are +4 and lower, although usually an improved mantle can be taken down with a breach spell, so there's that
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,450
    In the standard game, Improved Mantle doesn't provide immunity to +4 weapons. I believe sarevok57 was thinking of a modded version of the spell there.

    The lesser demon lord was the one I was thinking of. Anath doesn't qualify; if you pick a fight with her in the EE, you can hit her with anything. Even nonmagical weapons.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,884
    jmerry wrote: »
    In the standard game, Improved Mantle doesn't provide immunity to +4 weapons. I believe sarevok57 was thinking of a modded version of the spell there.

    The lesser demon lord was the one I was thinking of. Anath doesn't qualify; if you pick a fight with her in the EE, you can hit her with anything. Even nonmagical weapons.

    i never had a modded version of this spell, what seems to have happened is that beamdog randomly during one of the updates had changed this

    you even look at the game manuals and it even says it makes you immune to weapons of +4 and lower, and i am quite certain that in earlier versions, improved mantle protected you from +4 weapons, why they changed it to only +3 and lower is beyond me

    and in the vanilla game anath was only hittable by +5 weapons as well, so this must have been another beamdog fix
    Pokota
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