SCS component - HLA and Sequencers as Innate abilities

Myrag

What are your thoughts about this component in general?

While most components in SCS are about making the game harder by improving the AI, moving or removing OP items, nerfing spells, et cetera, this component seems like it's more of rebalancing than nerfing. It surely breaks one of the most OP combos in the game which is a Sorcerers using Project Image to unload his/her entire spellbook. But at the same time it buffs some other tactics/classes/combos.

For example Fighter/Mages who are notoriously powerful but lack lvl 9 spell slots get many more casts via innate abilities. Pretty much any fighter mage now should pick planetar and dragons breath and Improved Alacrity. This effectively doubles their casting ability. And chain contigency/spell triggers/etc. are also innate and can be used in combat for free.

Additionally, if we disregard the infamous Project Image abuse then a single mage can treat this as a buff because you get Chain Contigency, Dragons Breath, Comet, Planetar, Improved Alacrity for free, so Sorcerer can cast effectively 11 (12 if you like energy blades) level 9 spells instead of 6.

I'd say this might be even considered OP in mage heavy groups.

Let's also not forget about clerics and druids. They got some pretty decent HLAs too. Elemental Summoning is powerful even in the end game. Implosion stuns like everything, even Amelyssan, globe of blades can be decent in certain situations, aura of flaming death is always good, especially for free, storm of vengence is just free interrupt.

So again, what are your thoughts on this particular component. Does it add challange or it makes the game easier in most cases?

Myrag

Hmm I installed those components and one thing that surprised me is that HLAs are available from Cast Spell menu, not from Innate Abilities menu. Whereas Contigencies are available from Innate Abilities menu.

Is this expected?

jmerry

Yes, this is the way the component is designed.

Note that equipment that disables arcane or divine spellcasting will not block the use of spell HLAs. Druids can still cast their HLA spells while shapeshifted.

I like it, but I'd say it makes things easier. Not so much for the sorcerer, but more for multiclass spellcasters. It's a bigger impact when you have fewer spell slots to start with. A fighter/druid with 5 million XP only has one normal 7th level slot, but they can have a bunch of spell HLAs.

Myrag

I see, thanks.

Makes sense. This means that Sorcerer's project image can in fact cast HLAs since they are available from the cast spell menu. This makes sorcerer more powerful too because you can simply cast project image > 1x Improved alacrity > 1x planetar > 1x dragons' breath > 1x comet > 6x level 9 spells.

Most of the time you don't need second Improved Alacrity since your spellbook is empty. Only thing that you lose is 5x Dragon's Breath combo which isn't a big deal.

It also makes Sorcerer more OP because he/she gets free contigency spells which normally would use one of your limited spell selection, specially giving you one extra spell at lvl 8 and 9 are critical.

Wild Mage with NRD doesn't work on HLAs though. That's good.

jmerry

You seem to be laboring under a misconception here. Clones aren't locked out of using the abilities button. Your mages' clones can have all the fun they want with sequencers and contingencies. As long as they're not in combat when preparing them, of course.

And when it comes to Improved Alacrity ... in the run I just finished, with a Dragon Disciple protagonist and one other mage in the party, I used it once all game. It just wasn't necessary, ever. Project Image sufficiently breaks the game without the help, thank you.

Myrag

Hmmm, you are correct. It must be some other mod that does that, maybe it was spell revisions. I will check that later thanks.