Looking for help with understanding NPC damage

SuperNovice

Looking for help from anyone that knows how the game engine handles damage calculations for NPCs dealing damage.

I rolled up a new Barbarian today with 15 hit points. In the fight against the Belt Ogre south of the Friendly Arm Inn (Coast Way, area code: AR2800), I died in a single hit. My character was level 1 but I didn't think it would be possible to take 15 damage in one shot while wearing a helm.

That particular ogre's stats are stored in OGREUNSH.CRE. He's listed as having 18/00 strength and wielding a morning star. He has no proficiencies listed. According to those stats, his damage range should be 8-14 (2d4 for the morningstar + 6 for his strength). Yet somehow he did 15 damage.

Does anyone have insight into how damage is calculated? I was thinking of revisiting the no-reloads challenge and was playing through to refamiliarize myself with the game. Really just trying to understand how this works a bit better.

I do have some mods installed but I don't believe any of them increase ogre damage.
// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Smarter general AI: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Better calls for help: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Smarter Mages: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6040 // Smarter Priests: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6100 // Potions for NPCs: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6200 // Improved Spiders: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6300 // Smarter sirines and dryads: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6310 // Slightly smarter carrion crawlers: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6320 // Smarter basilisks: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7000 // Improved doppelgangers: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7010 // Tougher Black Talons and Iron Throne guards: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7020 // Improved deployment for parties of assassins: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7030 // Improved kobolds: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7040 // Relocated bounty hunters: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7050 // Improved Ulcaster: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7060 // Improved Balduran's Isle: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7070 // Improved Durlag's Tower: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7080 // Improved Demon Cultists: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7090 // Improved Cloakwood Druids: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7100 // Improved Bassilus: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7110 // Improved Drasus party: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7130 // Improved Red Wizards: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7140 // Improved Undercity assassins: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7200 // Tougher chapter-two end battle: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7210 // Tougher chapter-three end battle: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7220 // Tougher chapter-four end battle: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7230 // Tougher chapter-five end battle: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7250 // Improved final battle: 33.7
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7900 // Improved minor encounters: 33.7

jmerry

Your analysis is incorrect on two points.
First, ogres don't actually wield the morning stars they carry. Their actual weapon is OGRE1, which deals 1d10 crushing damage and is classified as a morning star.
Second, ogres do have a proficiency - they have three dots in the old-style "spiked weapons" proficiency. You have to check both styles; some monsters have one, some have the other. And those old-style proficiencies do still work.

Combine those two, and the ogre is actually dealing 1d10+9 damage per hit. That's a 50% chance of a one-hit kill on your 15-HP character, assuming no difficulty modifier to damage. Or 1d10+13 if you have a ranged weapon equipped, for virtually certain death.

Moral of the story: don't melee ogres at level 1. No warrior is tough enough for that.

SuperNovice

Got it - this makes sense. I was looking in the wrong place for proficiencies and misread the inventory screen. The morning star is an inventory item; his weapon is in Quick Weapon 1 and is, as you pointed out, Ogre1. Had to dig through Near Infinity to get to the damage on the weapon but I see it now.

Thanks! That clears things up.

SirBatince

jmerry wrote: »

Your analysis is incorrect on two points.
First, ogres don't actually wield the morning stars they carry. Their actual weapon is OGRE1, which deals 1d10 crushing damage and is classified as a morning star.
Second, ogres do have a proficiency - they have three dots in the old-style "spiked weapons" proficiency. You have to check both styles; some monsters have one, some have the other. And those old-style proficiencies do still work.

Combine those two, and the ogre is actually dealing 1d10+9 damage per hit. That's a 50% chance of a one-hit kill on your 15-HP character, assuming no difficulty modifier to damage. Or 1d10+13 if you have a ranged weapon equipped, for virtually certain death.

Moral of the story: don't melee ogres at level 1. No warrior is tough enough for that.

I thought ranged weapons only gave a thaco bonus to the attacker

I thought only unarmed gave a damage bonus to the attacker

jmerry

There's no distinction. Attacking anyone that's either unarmed (nonlethal fists) or has a ranged weapon equipped with a melee attack results in +4 to hit and +4 to damage. On the flip side, attacking an enemy in melee range with a ranged attack results in -8 to hit. Even the most dedicated archer should keep a melee option to switch to when enemies close.