Doppelgangers in Durlag's Tower

FenrirWolfganger

What are they doing there?

So I only found EE recently and was happily getting repeatedly slaughtered, I mean playing through, Durlag's Tower for the first time in 20 years when I realized their presence makes no sense.

The invasion was defeated centuries ago, even if they're looking for more treasure why immiate long dead people? Am I just casually slaughtering innocent Doppelgangers who've been cruelly kidnapped and forced to role play by a Devious Deranged Dwarf? Is my party of Goody Two Shoes playing the "rescue team" who kill more hostages than the kidnappers ever do as part of the malicious machinations of a Psychotic Stunty?

Or am I just over thinking a Dungeon Crawl? Thoughts, opinions, and especially excuses to continue slicing sneaky shape shifters welcome.

Arvia

If you played the game a long time ago, do you remember what you learn about them on the lowest level in the compass room? If you don't, I'd suggest you finish the tower and then get back to analyzing this thought.

I'll put my two cents into spoiler tags in case you don't want to look now or others don't want to read it. It's not a big spoiler, but an interesting detail considering more recent events.

It's mentioned there that the doppelgangers were sent or influenced by the "tentacled ones", because building the basement of the tower came close to their caverns. That's a reference to illithids, which is an interesting detail considering some of them (mind flayers) are also found in a dungeon in the sewers of Athkatla, and well, obviously, BG3. They have always been a hidden threat that didn't just keep to the Underdark, it seems.

Frankly, I find it more mysterious where the doppelgangers from the main quest line come from, and if there's a connection, or if maybe doppelgangers are just mercenaries for hire somewhere.

FenrirWolfganger

@Arvia I imagine it's harder for all of us to make time to play than it was 20 years ago but your answer is a real encouragement to make time. Looking forward to getting through the Dungeon and analyzing your two cents, thank you.

The_Baffled_King

FenrirWolfganger wrote: »

What are they doing there?

So I only found EE recently and was happily getting repeatedly slaughtered, I mean playing through, Durlag's Tower for the first time in 20 years when I realized their presence makes no sense.

I completely agree and I thought the same thing myself.

I then decided to think of the doppelgangers that imitate the forms of Durlag and his family as magical constructs created by Durlag (or by the people he hired). It fits his mental state perfectly. Because the question is not "why are the doppelgangers there?"; the question is "why are they still imitating the forms of Durlag's family, many. many years after Durlag's death?". This works for me, and I love Durlag's Tower!

Arvia's answer can perhaps explain the generic doppelgangers spawned outside and on the level with the warders, although I sorta think the level might have been better off without them.

VanDerBerg

Mystery is not so much why they are here, but how did they manage to survive all the traps that Durlag set. And how did the party of Dalton managed to get to Demon Knight without disarming any of the traps, defeating the warders etc.

The_Baffled_King

Off the top of my head, @VanDerBerg , I believe that Clair De'lain (name off the top of my head, also) says something about her, Dalton, and their party arriving via a passageway that had collapsed behind them.

sarevok57

mechanics wise on the other hand, i think one of the reasons why there are so many dopplegangers is because of the bastard sword +1, +3 vs shapeshifters

in the original game you could legitimately get 2 of these swords ( 4 if you pick pocketed aldeth enough ) so maybe the original devs wanted players to get more use out of that sword perhaps? also you were fighting many a doppleganger in chapter 7, so they perhaps thought that you may still be using that sword?

_Connacht_

VanDerBerg wrote: »

Mystery is not so much why they are here, but how did they manage to survive all the traps that Durlag set. And how did the party of Dalton managed to get to Demon Knight without disarming any of the traps, defeating the warders etc.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlreadyUndoneForYou

FenrirWolfganger

Firstly apologies for the delay replying, RL is a time trap.

Arvia wrote: »

If you played the game a long time ago, do you remember what you learn about them on the lowest level in the compass room?

Just redone today, had forgotten a good few of the points.

Arvia wrote: »

It's mentioned there that the doppelgangers were sent or influenced by the "tentacled ones", because building the basement of the tower came close to their caverns. That's a reference to illithids, which is an interesting detail considering some of them (mind flayers) are also found in a dungeon in the sewers of Athkatla, and well, obviously, BG3. They have always been a hidden threat that didn't just keep to the Underdark, it seems.

A point, in FR and RL sometimes the question isn't so much "Why are they there?" but "Who wants them there?"

Arvia wrote: »

I find it more mysterious where the doppelgangers from the main quest line come from, and if there's a connection, or if maybe doppelgangers are just mercenaries for hire somewhere.

At the time the Iron Throne controlled much of the Arms trade across Faerun so both suggestions are possible. But the way CHARNAME is hungrily looked up in the Seven Sun's offices implies Mercenaries to me.

The_Baffled_King wrote: »

I... think of the doppelgangers that imitate the forms of Durlag and his family as magical constructs created by Durlag (or by the people he hired). It fits his mental state perfectly.

That ties in with the Golem for the Craftsmen saying they feared all they were doing was repeating the disaster. For me though it means I'm just slaughtering innocent constructs (or recruits) just doing there job, at least I'm being well paid for it.

The_Baffled_King wrote: »

Arvia's answer can perhaps explain the generic doppelgangers spawned outside and on the level with the warders, although I sorta think the level might have been better off without them.

I didn't mind them, it was just the "Why are they here?" factor.

VanDerBerg wrote: »

Mystery is not so much why they are here, but how did they manage to survive all the traps that Durlag set.

If they're part of Durlag's welcoming reception then that explains that. If they're not then we're both confused.

VanDerBerg wrote: »

how did the party of Dalton managed to get to Demon Knight without disarming any of the traps, defeating the warders etc.

The_Baffled_King wrote: »

Off the top of my head, @VanDerBerg , I believe that Clair De'lain (name off the top of my head, also) says something about her, Dalton, and their party arriving via a passageway that had collapsed behind them.

_Connacht_ wrote: »

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlreadyUndoneForYou

Noteworthy that this very incident is at the top of the list under Video Games. Didn't notice Claire mentioning tunnels but Bayard in the Cellar definitely mentions tunnels collapsing. I just assumed Durlag had the place built with features to reset traps. I'd also recommend
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=06MlMMG5jIc for those who don't know Viva la dirt league.

sarevok57 wrote: »

i think one of the reasons why there are so many dopplegangers is because of the bastard sword +1, +3 vs shapeshifters... maybe the original devs wanted players to get more use out of that sword... ?

As a mechanic it's possible but honestly that would be lazy writing (says the guy who's only beaten the tower once since it came out, but I've nearly done it twice...)

Thank you @Arvia, @The_Baffled_King, @VanDerBerg, @sarevok57 and @_Connacht_ for your answers, thoughts, suggestions and link.

sarevok57

love viva la dirt league, glad to know other people know them to