Karoug Immune To Slow?
VanDerBerg
Member Posts: 218
Okay, this is getting a bit frustrating...
I am trying to solo Karoug with mage/thief. While I can pretty reliably paralyse him with a combination of greater malision, wand of paralisation and good old kiting, I cannot beat his insane regeneration. He is regenerating at the rate of 30 HP/round and has 50% elemental damage immunity, so I cannot find a combination of spells and attacks to beat that even while he is paralised. So, I thought I could cast Slow on him because, as far as I remember, greater wolveres are not immune to it. But when I cast it on him - nothing happens. There is no feedback, no saving throw, nothing, it just doesn't work. Does this mean he is immune to it and...why is he immune to it? I am playing with SCS and improved Balduran Isle, if it helps.
I am trying to solo Karoug with mage/thief. While I can pretty reliably paralyse him with a combination of greater malision, wand of paralisation and good old kiting, I cannot beat his insane regeneration. He is regenerating at the rate of 30 HP/round and has 50% elemental damage immunity, so I cannot find a combination of spells and attacks to beat that even while he is paralised. So, I thought I could cast Slow on him because, as far as I remember, greater wolveres are not immune to it. But when I cast it on him - nothing happens. There is no feedback, no saving throw, nothing, it just doesn't work. Does this mean he is immune to it and...why is he immune to it? I am playing with SCS and improved Balduran Isle, if it helps.
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Damage potential against a stunned Karoug ...
Haste + werebane dagger + wolfsbane amulet + Legacy of the Masters: 2d4+16+2xStr. That's at least 23 average damage per round, 27 with a potion for 18 strength. Not quite a match for Karoug's 30/round regeneration, but close.
The Burning Earth longsword is slightly more damage, but also more variable.
That's your attacks. Now add in some magic. For sustained damage ... wand of fire scorchers. 6d6+6, save for half (Karoug saves on a 6), and he's 50% fire resistance. But since it hits twice, it's worth it. Another 17 average damage per wand shot; added to your melee attacks, that's around 40 damage per round. Easily enough to overwhelm that regeneration.
Then there's another way to do it. Polymorph Other, whether as a spell or a wand. Sets his maximum HP to 11, permanently. Then you kill him in one hit. His saves are good, but he doesn't have MR.
So, that was it. And there was me, cackling upfront about him being slowed and halving his regeneration rate.
I had all of these, except that I used the burning earth. In the end, I also used two Emotion (Courage and Hope) spells, which add +2 and +3 damage (no idea if these are factored in for the backstab multiplier). I think the final damage output with burning earth was 11-19 or so, +2 of which came from strength. With backstab multiplier, it was around 30-60. I guess I got a good roll and did 50something damage from that, which made him killable with 2 magic missiles.
I am ashamed to admit that I totally forgot about dual wielding
I didn't think of polymorph other either. His saves aren't terribly good for a boss and with greater malision it is probably very doable. Oh well, all things to consider for the final Sarevok fight, which is hard as hell...
Killing Karoug is hard if you don't have anyone with the bastard sword against dopplegangers, because, look where, I don't know who came up with the other golden bastard sword in Karoug's back drawer, behind a trap and in a closed chest. But if you have that weapon, you kill it almost by looking at it. Ajantis with a potion of strength destroys him if you cover him from the other werewolves.
- Kondar (bastard sword, from Aldeth Sashenstar. Either kill him in the Cloakwood or help him out in the big city.)
- Albruin (bastard sword, from Simmeon in Dorn's quest.)
- The Burning Earth (long sword, from deep in Durlag's Tower.)
- Werebane (dagger, from lower down in the ship.)
- Sword of Balduran (bastard sword, in a container beyond Karoug.)
All right, bastard swords have the most options. But it's not just them. In one of my runs, I had Shar-Teel dual-classed to thief and specced for super-powerful backstabs. She took him down in a single round, without any help. One backstab with The Burning Earth, followed by a normal hit later in the round.
Most of those silver weapons are also flagged as cold iron, so they work against Selaad as well at the very end of the quest. Albruin is an exception, but you probably don't have three bastard sword users in your party. Of course, Selaad is much less of a problem, since he doesn't have that fast regeneration.
There are no critical failures on saving throws in these games. You can throw all the Chromatic Orbs you want at Karoug, and he'll never fail the save - he saves versus spell on a 5, so that +6 modifier gives him at least a 7 and he saves even on a natural 1. No petrifying him with your level 10 Avenger. Unless you debuff him with a Greater Malison first.
Also, on the question of the thread's title ... as answered in my first post, that was a mod change. You slowed the standard version of Karoug, VanDerBerg couldn't slow the SCS version.
Speaking of avengers, I wonder if there is actually a way for avenger to solo Karoug, since they can use only one of the weapons that can hurt Karoug. Though, I guess if an avenger dooms him, then somehow manages to summon a bunch of woodland beings in that confined space while being chased by Karoug and one of them manages to land Hold Monster and if the avenger spams wand of heavens and takes oil of speed, maybe they can beat his regeneration somehow...Cause Serious Wounds should count as Cold Iron, but it takes a whole round to cast it for 27 damage, so that's a no no.
Though, maybe better question is whether a cleric can solo Karoug, since none of the weapons from the list are usable by cleric.
You can use Kiel's morning star. It's a +3 weapon, and it's +5 when you get the murderous madness, even if it's cursed, you could finish him off.
Or the hammer spell, which I think also hurts him.
There are a few melee attacks a cleric can hit them with; spells like the Cause Wounds line and Slay Living create a "weapon" that counts as silver and cold iron. But you're limited to level 4 spells so it's Cause Serious Wounds only, and a casting time of 7 for 17 damage isn't going to get you ahead against that regeneration.
None of Shillelagh, Flame Blade, or Spiritual Hammer count as silver or cold iron.
This seems like the only way to beat him. Of course, with his saving throws and 50% electrical resistance, you will need maaaaany of these. Not sure how it would work in a confined space such as is there, but I guess you could kite him around, use sanctuary, move away, place glyph in the corner of the room, do this a few times, leave the room, go outside the ship, rest and repeat. Then take a potion of absorption and lure him to the corner somehow that the glyph doesn't activate with just you in its AoE area. Sounds hard, but doable theoretically.
Clerics can cast protection from lightning, so there's no need to use any resources. As you say, you can use sanctuary to set up glyphs - but you can also move Karoug between levels and do it like that. As the glyphs have an area of effect there's no problem getting them to affect him.
It is also possible to kill him just with firebreath potions, but that's resource intensive and not guaranteed if you only have a limited supply.
Maybe the question is if a druid can solo him...