Have Infravision actually do something

AndyXuma

Hi all, this is from a thread I originally posted on /r/FriendsOfBaldursGate:

I still remember the first time I played through BG and went to great pains to have as many characters as possible in my party with infravision, be it due to racial ability, spells, rings, helm or whatever. I figured it had to be very important to be able to see in the dark after all!

Had one of the greatest disapointments in my life when I learned that Infravision is absolutely useless in BG.

Please make it do something! One suggestion: lower the odds of hitting something with ranged attacks at night if no infravision.

Tanthalas

Yeah, I also think that Infravision should do something.

I agree that characters without infravision should have at least a 1 point THAC0 penalty when fighting in the dark (melee attacks too, not just ranged). The game has rings, helms and even a spell that grants infravision, all for something that is almost completely useless.

AzL0n

That would be sweet. Would be cool if it applied for when inside dark caves and dungeons as well.

kamuizin

Not even the hostile NPCs use the spell, even the AI of the game agrees that's a shit spell.

Tanthalas

That would be sweet. Would be cool if it applied for when inside dark caves and dungeons as well.

Yep, that's what I was thinking. Not just night time, but when in any dark place.

Winthal

thac0 penalties for ranged weapons in the dark at a certain distance I can agree with, but seriously, even human eyes get used to darkness pretty quick so melee should not be penalized.

AzL0n

@Winthal

It would be good if there was some kind of downside to ranged weapons. They're so fricking abusive in Bg1.

Speaking of which is the TOB engine going to fix this?

Winthal

@AzL0n bows reigned in BG1, and I love that to be honest. In BG2 they have been nerfed close to being useless, even with the Archer kit they're not that great compared to basically everything else. Since BG:EE will use the TOB engine, bows will automatically be nerfed, so yes to your question.

The only upside (to me) is that bows will still be relatively useful in the early levels because of the abundance of enemies like gnolls, gibberlings, hobgoblins, kobolds etc. it won't matter overly much that bows usually don't hit for more than like 5-6 damage, still I'll miss the old BG1 engine bow damage for sure It wasn't only that it buffed your own archers, but it also made all those longbow using bandits serious threats. There's a waylay scenario where you get surrounded by around 10 bandits, that encounter was often fatal on low levels in the old engine...

AzL0n

@Winthal

Yeah I know. Between the zone between Beregost and friendly arms going to friendly arms right? As a fellow no reloader didn't you get pissed off by that waylaid? Most of the time you would die if you didn't have Xzart and Monty and if you do have them, everyone will die except your PC.

Winthal

@AzL0n absolutely, but at that point it was more a case of kicking a man when he's down, my party had just lost 3 members (and all their gear since I couldn't finish the fight - it was against longbow using highwaymen using +1 arrows in the old engine... ow ow ow) and I was heading to the Friendly Arm temple to resurrect them - As if that wasn't enough, of course I hear that accursedly familiar voice saying "You have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself", instead of raging hard I think I just smiled crookedly, accepting the fact that the game just really reeeallly wanted to kill me

...but eventually:



(Note: lol looking at this screenshot I see that I am hitting the Quick Save button repeatedly, even though I am playing with no reloads! It must be a reflex, hitting QS gives you a sense of safety I suppose )

AzL0n

@Winthal

LOL! Did you really keep on going afterwards?

Winthal

@AzL0n I sure did this was my very first attempt at playing hardcore. The main mistake I made, in retrospect, was dual-classing myself (I was playing Fallen Ranger for flavor reasons, dualing to thief), that left the party with one competent fighter/damage dealer (Kagain), 2 healers with slings and lousy thac0, and 2 low level mages (Edwin, Xzar) who quickly ran out of spells and became useless in fights - the brigands attacked me before I had reclaimed my ranger levels, so technically, I was a level 1 thief when it happened... live and learn I guess?

MERLANCE

Perhaps they should add the Tarasque to the oasis in BG2 and only allow it to be viewed with infravision?

kamuizin

Perhaps they should add the Tarasque to the oasis in BG2 and only allow it to be viewed with infravision?

A joke, i presume?

Anyway i would really love a tarrasque in BG2!

MERLANCE

Its an old joke from way back in the day on the Black Isle forums and some other forums, way back when TOB first came out. The Tarrasque was supposedly at the Oasis but you could only see it if you had the ring of infravision on. I went way old school, as I figured someone might remember it.

Shareazu

that would actually be a nice game secret, but maybe the tarrasque is too much, even for the child of bhaal...

Drugar

Especially since the (ch)easiest way to take one down is by having your party fly out of his reach to bombard him with missle weapons, which is impossible in the BG Engine.

I would like one though, in BG2. Maybe Throne of Bhaal. And maybe you can lure it into Watcher's Keep to seal it in with Demogorgon. That could go so right or so, so wrong.

kamuizin

Look, we can squash demongoron, clean the floor with ravager, kill up to 6 named elder dragons (abzigail son doesn't count but even being young he's one of the strongest children of bhaal) among other things... i really don't see a problem with a tarrasque.

I can become the slayer! This must count to something, no?!

But hey, maybe i'm wrong!

caruga

There was definitely a thread that already discussed this and came up with a great solution, let's see if I can find it... nope. Or maybe I'm remembering this one and it got pushed.

Anyway, I support it!

Shareazu

The problem with tarrasque is that you can't just kill him as you normally would... if i remember correctly, in order to kill him in AD&D, first you had to leave him with less than -10 hit points, then you had to use a wish to prevent him from ressurecting, since tarrasque has an absurd health regeneration... there could be another things involved, but i don't remember them

but in my opinion, it would be awesome! i just don't know how they could fit him in the game...

ElectricMonk

@AndyXuma Yeah, it would be nice if they made it actually do something, kind of ridiculous that there are items/spells for it and yet it does nothing, I agree with the idea of a ranged attack disadvantage.

kamuizin

@Shareazu, i quoted your last comment to continue this tarrasque discussion in another topic to avoid spam (more than what has been done at least).

mch202

agree!

one thing for sure, i loved the helmet of infravision!

Shareazu

@Shareazu, i quoted your last comment to continue this tarrasque discussion in another topic to avoid spam (more than what has been done at least).

'aight!

Majoca

Infravision is something that needs fixing or perhaps fixing is the wrong word actually making it have a feature. What if there were things you couldnt see unless you had infravision? or it allowed you to see enemies beyond the fog? or just increased line of sight in darker areas?

kamuizin

If the new engine support this, ok. But as it's unlikely to happen, i believe infravision shoud act as a panacea to blind in any dark place, i mean if there's no light on the place everyone that does not have infravision shoud suffer as if blind. Casters should need to touch to every spell they try to do and fighters shoud have the huge penalities on thac0 that a blind person has.

I believe the game can fix the places where blind should active, as in valen mod where fixed places covered by sun.

Alesh91

How about a detection bonus on hidden enemies in darkness if infravision is activion?

Spite

Maybe an increased bonus to hiding overall in dark areas, which is countered by infravision is a good idea?

Senash

I never understood from the beginning, how can thieves use hide in shadows against you when you have goddamn infravision?

Bend3

Infravision adds the ability to see better in the dark. It does not however make you more aware of SNEAKY opponents. If you blend in with the surroundings, then ability to see in that light level isn't helping much. Though I could see them increasing stealth level for rogues in dark areas, and NULLIFYING against someone with infravision.

Thoughts?

cyberhawk

Bend3 said:

Infravision adds the ability to see better in the dark. It does not however make you more aware of SNEAKY opponents. If you blend in with the surroundings, then ability to see in that light level isn't helping much. Though I could see them increasing stealth level for rogues in dark areas, and NULLIFYING against someone with infravision.

Thoughts?

Shadows do not exist when using infravision. When normal vision distinguishes between more light - less light and colors, infravision distinguishes between alive - non alive based on body temperature. You might be seeing a reddish person in the middle of a bluish background (no matter what the lighting in the area is) if looking at a hiding thief.

If an opponent is sneaking up behind you, that's another story of course. But once someone has infravision, shadows don't apply anymore, because your infravision isn't getting worse if there is less light in the area. It might just get better actually, because sunlight has a warmth-component. Stones and trees would get warm and make it harder to disstinguish between anything based on infravision.