Party advice and Bard questions

DeeKayNL

Hello all,

I am currently planning my next run.
I want to make a party with NPCs who is normally font take with me.

My list of NPCs is
Mazzy
Minsc
Viconia
Haer'dalis
Jan Janssen
Cernd

EE NPCs dont do much for me except maybe Neera. But i already had het in my party nog long ago.

I keep reading that the board song had been nerfed and AM wondering if this still is the case ?? Especially the range of the song?

My Charname probably gonna be a Sorceror. Not sure yet what fits the party.

Any advice and some insights in the bard song?

Thank you

SBlack

From the wiki:

In EE version 2.0+, Bard song of the same type no longer stacks, and all songs break invisibility, but the patch does give unkitted normal bard song a +1 Luck bonus to allies who hear them at Bard level 1, +2 at level 15, and +3 at level 20

Seems logical and not a huge deal. There is always a lot of whining over "nerfs", no matter how minor


You may want to look into the "Rogue Rebalancing" mod. It has an overhaul for the bard and thief kits:
http://readme.spellholdstudios.net/rr_core.html#Bard_kit_revisions

jmerry

Bard song ranges, in unmodded BGEE/BG2EE version 2.6 ...

Vanilla bard song: the whole party regardless of distance or line of sight, but only actual party members.
Blade song: Allies within a standard medium AoE (same as a fireball) centered on the singer.
Skald song: Allies within a standard medium AoE (same as a fireball) centered on the singer.
Jester song: Enemies within a standard medium AoE (same as a fireball) centered on the singer.
Enhanced Bard Song: Allies within a standard medium AoE (same as a fireball) centered on the singer.

Haer'Dalis is a Blade, so he'll be working with that relatively small area for his entire career, You can't have him stand back if you want the song to help.
A vanilla bard has the advantage of infinite song range, but also the disadvantage of not being able to help summons.

There is a simple mod out there for bard song ranges, standardizing them to affect a considerably larger area. See here if you're interested.

As for the party build ... it'll work. Lighter on warriors than I'd usually go, but you can always have Cernd lean on his shapeshifting to tank while the bulk of the party goes for ranged offense. As of 2.6, greater werewolf form has regeneration in addition to its incredible AC and magic/elemental resistances.
And on that note, sorcerers/dragon disciples are the ideal choice for a "blaster" mage focusing on damaging spells. Pick one at each spell level, and you'll have the option to unload a ton of firepower whenever you want, while still retaining the defensive and defense-breaking options mages are known for.

DeeKayNL

Thank you both for your info! I didn't mean to cheese multiple songs from one bard, but the range is quite problematic. Either I mod to improve the song radius or install Rogue rebalancing mod and remove the enhanced song for HD and add some other hla's. Can I install the rebalancing mod after scs?

Regarding the party are Mazzy and Minsc and HD as backup not enough for melee?
But that would mean i would have to choose between Cernd and Viconia considering my list is one NPC to long.

jmerry

Haer'Dalis in melee ... give him a decent weapon (short sword or long sword preferred) and Kundane in the off hand, and he's decent at dealing damage. But he's very squishy with his rogue hit points, poor constitution, and lack of helmets or good armor (before HLA). He needs defensive spells to survive on the front line, and that means he has to pick his fights.

Mazzy? I thought you'd be using her as primarily an archer, given her proficiencies. She'll develop into a fine melee warrior as well, but that takes time and a lot of levels.

Cernd, of course, swaps between a squishy caster and an incredibly tough melee tank with poor offense. Learning which fights call for which option is the key to mastering his power.

Of course, how much melee you take is a personal choice. I usually aim high in BG2 - my last two parties ran four front-liners each.

And I didn't notice that you had one too many. Hmm. I don't know who I'd cut there.

DeeKayNL

Thanks, Mazzy seems to be a very good tank when invested some pips in the right weapon categorie ( probably axes , long weapons seem so silly).

Charname Sorceror (throwing daggers)
Mazzy ( axes, one pip Warhammer for offhand?)
Viconia ( flail of ages and sling)
Minsc ( All other weapons, later focus on bastard swords?)
Haer'dalis ( longswords) / Cernd (staffs,clubs and scimitars? Probably can never use them? )
Jan Janssen ( crossbow)

I need a thief and divine, arcane and at least 2 melee. That leaves the last spot for either a 3rd melee/arcane of a 2nd divine caster with druid spells. Difficult.... Maybe I should pick Cernd as I really never took him. Should check hoe to equip and play him.

SBlack

DeeKayNL wrote: »

long weapons seem so silly

I gave her halberds in one game. Precisely for the hilarity

DinoDin

Mazzy can be a solid front-liner, and it will be an atypical usage of her. Though she won't be quite the damage dealer as with the bow.

She'll get the +4 saving throw bonus. She'll have a high hitpoint pool. She can have an extremely high AC without special gear. The biggest downside is that she will struggle to deal damage at the rate of many other NPC fighter options, at least until you level her up. Short swords are also unfortunately one of the weaker class of weapons -- as well she may be competing for the few good ones with Haerdalis.

Still, she'll be impressively tanky for little investment. In a frontline role, she also makes much better use of her paladin-like spell abilities, self lay hands, strength. I'd suggest tossing a shield on her (for awhile anyways) and making her your main tank out of that group. She'll require a fair bit less micromanagement in that role than Cernd or Haerdalis.

jmerry

DinoDin wrote: »

... Short swords are also unfortunately one of the weaker class of weapons -- as well she may be competing for the few good ones with Haerdalis.

You know, you don't have to go with short swords for her. She only starts with one proficiency point, after all. In my no-spellcasting run, I gave her flails as her melee option. FoA and a shield at first, FoA and DoE in the endgame.

ThacoBell

I tend to go axes with Mazzy. So yeah, go with whatever, she'll enough prof points.

jsaving

Axes are underrated in BG2 and I tend to do exactly the same thing.

ThacoBell

Axe of the Unyielding is an amazing tank weapon.

DinoDin

Definitely agree on the axe recommendation, especially considering the original poster's party composition. Didn't mean to imply you HAD to go short swords, if anything just warning about the paucity of quality options.

Lotta ways you could go given that party composition. Blunt weapons might be even more ideal than axes, especially if you aren't going to do much melee with Viconia. Flail or hammer make for good choices there.

To be honest this discussion almost makes me want to do a playthrough with her as the party's main tank. Something I've never really done.