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input on evil roleplay (talon of malar)

Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
The question is simple, I want to roleplay evil from the beginning to the end (TOB). Any suggestions on how to do that. I've played this game a dozen times, also with lots of mods, but struggle to find roleplay reasons to do things.

Just in case, this is my build: elven ranger-cleric chaotic evil, talon of Malar (a mod, an ee keeper to change allignment to CE).

Short Background: “Malar growled in frustration but could do nothing, and yet again only the beasts were left for him.” This quote refers to how Malar, god of beasts, failed to force the Dead Three to share their powers with him. But... Malar did not give up (he is god of the hunt after all). The main character can't stand the suffocation of Candlekeep, and resents Gorion for seeking to "tame" his wild nature (both wood elven and bhaal).

I have a whole backstory, involving how his mother ended up seeking to sacrifice him to Bhaal (in the temple you visit in SOD and as mentioned later in TOB). Practically, elves will reject him, which he thinks is because of how his brith has tainted elvish purity. So I start with Kivan and Jaheira (as a half elf). They will leave him when reputation becomes low. Later I will take Xan (also in BG2), Viconia and Tiax (modded followers include Ver'sza, Tamoko and other interesting evil companions) The background is that Malar nurtures his lust for power and the chaos of the hunt. He will become fascinated with Sarevok and especially Jon Irenicus, as another rejected elf. The hunt is on, they are hiding, they must be hiding weakness. Eventually he will seek recorgnition of his strength from his god directly but, what if he rose to become a god himself?

The question again, I don't want to go around just killing commoners to lower reputation (and make Kivan and Jaheira leave). What part of the story of BGEE would you suggest I use to accomplish this through roleplay? And other suggestions for the game later on? (I get that there are quests that lower reputation, but still how would this type of character approach such events, or are there other such events to think up)
Post edited by Quill_Armguard on

Comments

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,439
    Not part of the roleplaying angle, but something to watch out for - unless you mod for it, rangers fall at low reputation. And if you're bringing Kivan along, that's not just an issue for your protagonist. That will become a problem before characters outright leaving does.
    Quill_Armguard
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    thanks, sounds like I'll have that problem. I'll maybe roleplay it for a while and find some "in game" excuse to use EE keeper to put it back. Suggestions? Maybe with the druids in the cloakwood, as if Faldorn "fixed" it.
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 920
    Easier to play fighter/druid or modded shapeshifter (mod the paws, maybe other things) as evil. It is easy to mod the druids allignement to any neutral (good, evil) and some happy patch to not leave the npc if your reputation too low.
    Other evil idea is a talonite cleric or fighter/cleric but ofc another backstory needed.
    Quill_Armguard
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    edited October 2021
    tested it, at rep 3 I'm still a ranger. Must be mods. Back to level 1 and rep 12. And if I lose interest in roleplaying the story I won't make it past SOD
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,167
    There's a Talon of Malor kit in the Faiths and Powers mod.
    Quill_Armguard
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    yes, that's the one I use and that inspired my little story. It's a cleric kit, so I don't quite know why my ranger-cleric can be CE with 3 reputation, without becoming a fallen ranger. It works, so it works... trying to decide on roleplaying reasons to get to the point where Kivan refuse to hang out with me any longer, and seeing what Jaheira and Khalid do at that point. I'm not certain Khalid is good and Jaheira neutral, so we'll see how they respond to reputation 2 or 3. For now we're simply being a level 1 group in the wilds (non-town maps), maybe it'll happen without planning anything.
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,458
    I've done an evil playthrough not too long ago and it's alot of fun but requires certain finesse.

    One key thing to start thinking about is that there are only five evil companions in BG2. You can, of course, take neutral ones. And even use good ones in ToB, but I think it's really worth sticking with the five in SoA for a themed playthrough. They're given some cool interactions, sometimes involving more than just two of them. And their classes are -- fighter, paladin, thief, cleric, mage. So they can cover most of what you need, but you should think about how your protagonist fits into that group.

    I choose Shaman in order to add access to druid spells. But the ideal might be a cleric/mage multi, to help compensate for Edwin's missed spells and add a second divine caster.

    I'd also recommend not just being stupid evil. You really have to finesse the reputation system in this playthrough to stay somewhere between 6-9 to avoid fighting the authorities. So, the smart playthrough will probably have you taking the "good" outcome from certain quests. Or make usage of temple reputation purchases.
    Quill_Armguard
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,269
    Or you could ignore the sage advice of @DinoDin and collect the easy XP from the authorities! Although they are quite tough, so you may want to wait until you're back from the Underdark. ?
    Quill_Armguard
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,458
    Heh. Problem is, in BG1, fighting them sends you into a reputation spiral. You keep losing rep for killing hostile flaming fists. Not so in BG2, so it's not as much of a disaster to drop to 5 or lower. But you don't want to stay there, it makes for tedious moving around the city areas.
    Quill_Armguard
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,439
    edited November 2021
    In BG1, 5 rep is actually still pretty safe. The reputation trap thresholds:

    4 or less: Amnian soldiers patrolling Nashkel go hostile. They're pre-placed, so no more spawn if you kill them all.
    3 or less: Generic bounty hunter shows up (Nashkel). Fighter, can be bribed (expensively) into leaving without a fight the first few times. Killing lowers rep.
    3 or less: Nestor shows up (Ankheg farm). Ranger, can be talked into leaving without a fight. Killing doesn't lower rep. Trap doesn't reset, so this only applies the first time you pass through.
    3 or less: Tel-anon shows up (Wyrm's Crossing east). Fighter/mage, can be talked into leaving without a fight. Killing doesn't lower rep. Trap doesn't reset, so this only applies the first time you pass through.
    2 or less: Flaming Fist enforcers show up (Beregost, Baldur's Gate, Friendly Arm). Killing lowers rep.

    There's also a Flaming Fist ambush area; I'm not sure what, if anything, triggers that.

    I'm aiming for 6 as a reputation to sit on in my current evil run, but dropping to 4 by killing Drizzt wasn't a problem at all. (Method: kite him in a circle for an in-game hour chasing one party member while the rest use missile weapons)
    Why 6? A bit of a buffer, and I can play "hide the drow" to raise rep to 10 and get decent store prices any time I feel like it.

    BG2 has that same "3 or less" threshold for the reputation traps around Athkatla. In that case, it's either a Radiant Heart party or a party of soldiers and Cowled Wizards. Both can be killed without losing further reputation.
    Post edited by jmerry on
    Quill_Armguard
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    Thanks everybody, some good suggestions. I did not know about the bounty hunters and the bribery functions. That gives me some roleplay input. Being hunted and pushed out of the cities works well with the Malar roleplay. It's not because of the low reputation alone but also just a general distaste of “order” and “civilization”.

    I wish it was possible to donate to the temple of Umberlee rather than Helm and Lathander. That would solve a lot of the roleplay probems. With the character being a ranger he can hide, which makes it possible to get to places, complete quests etc. It’s risky but also kind of fun that way. But, of course, at some point rep needs to go up again and the guards need to loose their hostile status.

    So maybe that’s goes some way to limit the “stupid” evil, but there’s inescapably some of that. I try to maintain that my character carers about the main storyline, he wants to hunt down who’s after him, and in cities he’s out of his element and careful. However, he shows his chaotic side more clearly on all the side missions in the countryside.
    DinoDin
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    aon the follower situation. I like my character to be the frontliner even if he is not particularly effective at it, just because it really gives a sense of a chaotic leader. And he constantly does not do what the group gives as advice (that allows occasionally for some metagaming if the game leaves me very little option but also for roleplay if it’s an insignificant choice).

    I did some modding to keep it fresh. My core group is Viconia and Ver’sza who is a ranger (a mod) because both have content for BG1, SOD and BG2. I will pick up Tiax who I placed much earlier in the game for some minimal thief skills and have a mod to make him available in BG2 (in the asylum). I will pick up Xan because I never used him before and I have a mod for Xan in BG2. That covers what i consider the minimally needed skills.

    On the other options: I can’t stand Safana and Baeloth any more. I like Edwin and Dorn but have used them so many times... I am considedering Quale because there is a mod that has him replace Aerie in BG2 but no SOD content.

    Other mods that I have are Vynd (evil), Dave (evil) and Moidre (neutral) who interact with each other and have SOD content. I had hoped for Viernax (an evil elven mage) but she's not in her starting position and would have been the reason to check other modded npcs by the same author (who are not evil).

    So the plan seems to be, to start with the core group, while later dropping Tiax and Xan (who are not in SOD) for the three modded NPCs and carry that over to SOD.


    DinoDin
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,439
    I just ran into something on my current playthrough: those traps aren't the only low-rep trouble spots. The soldiers patrolling Nashkel also have a script imposed on them by the area that causes them to go hostile if your reputation is 4 or less.
    Since I was at 2 when this triggered, I just took the opportunity to kill them all.
    Balrog99Quill_Armguard
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    so I improvised and this is how it worked out. I decided that my main character would not help the farmer whose cows are under attack by Xvarts. He would rather side with the Xvarts but they attacked him. After that I was not nice to the woman turned to stone (-1), and I took Viconia with me (-2), which got Kivan to attack. I liked that. It's roleplying-wise a moment wherein the character of the group changes from elven to evil. Khalid left after I sold out at the archeological dig (-2). Oddly enough Jaheira did not, she's neutral but I figured she'd leave with Khalid. She complained but would not leave. So I left her with the nice druid called Corsone to deal with her grief and return some balance to herself (yes, yes, he is actually evil, that's the point). This allows me to explain how she shows up later in SOD and still respects the main character. Clearing the mines should stop the attacks of the flaming fist, but I'll be flooding the cloakwood mines. Which starts the problem all over.... no idea yet how to continue at that point. Any suggestions to get rep up that would make sense -- looking at the list my character would maybe help the cursed man, the zombie, the other things don't really fit.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,439
    ... I have to edit my list again. Those bounty hunters Nestor and Tel-anon I mentioned? Their traps don't reset, so those encounters only come up if your reputation is that low the first time you come through.

    A disappointment for my current evil party, which is at rep 3 after flooding the Cloakwood mines with the slaves inside.

    Also, don't talk to Officer Vai if your reputation is below 5. Instead of opening up her shop, she goes hostile.
    Balrog99
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    we're about at the same point. I just flooded the mines. But... because my game is heavily modded several things don't work the way I plan them. I did not get a reputation hit! I am getting serious bounty hunter parties when traveling between areas, the fist showing up... but I never went to officer Val and similarly I avoided Scar going into the city. Just does not make sense. I went into the sewers immediately. I'll clear those and pick up a few items from the city I consider essential for outfitting my party. I'll go to Durlag's tower as soon as I think we're ready so that I will give Imoen the helmet of opposite allignment. Just makes sense to corrupt her, given the rest of the story and I have extra banter mods for her. If only I could side with the cultists/demon or with the werewolves....
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,439
    Did you change Imoen's class? The helm of opposite alignment is a helmet; you need to be a warrior or priest to be able to equip it.

    By the way, Scar and the Flaming Fist guy on the bridge don't care about reputation. I talked to them at rep 3 and it was just fine.

    The reputation change on flooding the mines comes when a slave approaches you to talk as you go outside; +2 if you freed the slaves before pulling the plug, -2 if you didn't. If you snuck by that guy somehow, no change.

    One of my little tricks with this party is "hide the drow". I have both Baeloth and Viconia, so I ask them to leave when shopping for a temporary +4 reputation and lower prices. Then they rejoin as soon as I'm done buying stuff.
    The party also has Dorn, but he's my protagonist. Leaving isn't an option for him.

    On those bounty hunter ambushes ... there are a number of ambush areas (AR5610, AR5710, AR5810, AR5910, AR6010, AR6110) with Flaming Fist enforcers or bounty hunters.
    Normal travel links have ambush areas associated with them ... and never these ones. I don't know what, if anything, triggers these ambushes. And I haven't seen them in my game.
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    I loosened item restrictions. So I think it'll work. I'm not a powerplayer (any more) but do change a lot of things to allow for some convenience, more flexibility, keep things fresh, and roleplay. Viconia uses a bow and long sword for example because I hate it if half the party uses a sling because of being part cleric. Thanks for the warning though, I'll pick up Alora for a mission or two just to see if the helmet will fit. I don't care about Durlag's tower beyond the skill books (all go to my character, who'se a child of bhaal after all) and the helmet.

    Just for convenience I sell everything to the mage at high hedge. I always do that, he buys everything and if I accidentally sell stuff that I need later on, I can easily find it. I basically check the other shops to see what are the few items my characters might really want. I don't buy a lot, makes no sense again from a roleplaying perspective. I still have to decide before SOD whether to metagame with buying a ton of wands and fancy arrows so that my money does not get lost.

    My character is chaotic evil and is being used/worships Malar. That seems to me to indicate that I can't happily cooperate with the city based authorities, like Scar and Duke Elthan. So I avoid them, wherever the story allows even if this locks me out of certain quests. It'll be impossible not to engage with the Duke but I'm sure as hell going to steal from him, insult him, and whatever else I can come up with. Any ideas?

    I'll roleplay that Imoen became a mage under their protection once the helmet was taken off, still half under my influence but not quite, and I want her back from them. Gives me extra motivation in BG2... I'll take her from spellhold, only give her scrolls with clearly evil spells, and park her in the temple of Talos or the poisoned druid grove. I'll probably find a way to keep the helmet (console or going back for it, i'm using EET) and put it back on at that point. Depending on whether her (modded) dialogue makes any sense like this, I'll use her in the group or not.

    I'll soon kick Tiax and Quale out to make space for other followers. I'll roleplay that my character, Viconia and Ver'sza got sick of them fighting. I've been collecting cursed scrolls and rings but I still have to find a want of petrification. I'll put them on display together somewhere, my current favorite is the temple of Helm or Lathander where I massacre the priests and other inhabitants, leaving them behind as stupid, ugly statues. We'll meet them again in BG2 but their characters are so blind to anything that it's not at all inconsistent to assume they would still be part of the group.

    So that's a 1 reputation well earned. At some point, I think I'll go on a little rampage, assassinating the pillars of society wherever I can. After all, they treated me badly and after Candlekeep I'm switching from being the hunted to being the hunter (the power! the power!). I'll get to roleplay annoyance when I'm put on trial at the end of SOD about how they leave out the really good stuff.

    Don't know what to do with Xan yet, he's not in SOD but he'll be back in BG2 (mod), so I do want to switch him out, but he's not an idiot like the others. So I have to come up with a different "evil" plot. Suggestions? Or any other sensible "evil" paths to consider?
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    edited December 2021
    great, the forum is back. Maybe this will get noticed. My playthrough went really well, i ended up finishing the hell section of SOD. Basically there were no glitches until that moment, my EET instalation was fully functional. I spend almost all the time at 1 reputation deliberately, and with roleplay elements wherever possible. I was really looking forward to the trial because I figured there would not be a thing to say in favor of my character. However, that's where the game broke. The dream sequence where my character stabs Skie does not trigger and so chapter 13 never starts.

    I tried reloading to an earlier stage (basically before and after the fight in hell) moving to the location with console commands, changing the chapter in EE keeper (and moving to the location), and generally searching for possible global strings to change. No luck.

    Has this (great!) run come to an early end? Any suggestions on what I might do to get the cutscene to trigger?
  • Quill_ArmguardQuill_Armguard Member Posts: 52
    It got solved, someone suggested that I use the command C:CreateCreature("bdbence") and it worked. I'm still not entirely out of the woods. After transitioning to BG2 Imoen is standing next to Irenicus. This does not stop the progress, Irenicus does his speech, the thief runs in and gets killed, and in a way it is kind of funny (good reason not to take her along). However, it's not a good sign and I cannot save the game after that. It keeps saying "monsters are about". I put it on a low difficulty and went all the way to the library and still there's no saving the game.

    Anyway, I'll try and solve the next hurdle but it's great that I got the end of SOD solved by asking around.
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