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Creatures Challenge Rating is not staying where I set it.

4BOLTMAIN4BOLTMAIN Member Posts: 90
edited February 2022 in Builders - Toolset
As the title states, I noticed this 2 weeks ago that nearly all of the creatures in my module, for whatever reason, had the challenge rating changed from where I initially set it. 152 creatures takes a long time to redo. I spent over 6 hours fixing this and now I have noticed it has changed again. First the rating was too high and now the rating is too low.

I do not build Creature CR when building the module so what keep changing it?

EDIT: Other than correcting the challenge rating 2 weeks ago I have not edited anything else on any creatures that would cause this issue. I built the module with Creature CR box checked and will adjust everything again and see what happens.
Post edited by 4BOLTMAIN on

Comments

  • 4BOLTMAIN4BOLTMAIN Member Posts: 90
    This time it only took me about 2 hours to adjust everything. I will make a backup of the module and continue to monitor this issue. I have no idea how this keeps happening but its a good thing I keep a spreadsheet for easy reference.
  • TerrorbleTerrorble Member Posts: 169
    Have you edited the cost values in any 2da?

  • 4BOLTMAIN4BOLTMAIN Member Posts: 90
    The only thing I have changed in the last few months in any 2da's is the stack size for brewed potions. Some boss creatures have heal potions but none have any brewed potions.
  • Old_GithOld_Gith Member Posts: 152
    Have you done, by chance, a module build with the Toolset utility?
  • 4BOLTMAIN4BOLTMAIN Member Posts: 90
    I don't use any other programs for editing other than the toolset itself. I always use the build module option to check for script errors when I make script changes and I do not check the Creature CR box.
  • Old_GithOld_Gith Member Posts: 152
    Yeah, I asked because I thought I noticed some changed values on my end, but I couldn't determine if it was me, a patch in the last year, or just the fog of memory. I'm keeping a closer eye, though. Some values were clearly not the way I had left them, but I have no evidence to bring to bear in a trial against the accused.
  • ForSeriousForSerious Member Posts: 446
    I was very reluctant to use moneo and lettoscript. I'm ultra glad I took the time to figure them out though.
    It changed adding new scripts to every locked or trapped object from a multiple day project to a 2 second action. So maybe it took a few hours to refine the script, but that was still less time then doing it by hand.

    For your case, with it you can at least use the example script that prints out all the CRs of all your creatures and compare that to your spreadsheet. But from there, it shouldn't be too hard to bump the CRs if it's a linear shift that has happened.
  • 4BOLTMAIN4BOLTMAIN Member Posts: 90
    edited February 2022
    Thanks for the input, I just happened to find this when looking at an encounter in the toolset. I checked some creatures today and everything I saw was correct. I have a backup in case it happens again.
    Post edited by 4BOLTMAIN on
  • 4BOLTMAIN4BOLTMAIN Member Posts: 90
    This happened again!!!

    Im not sure whats going on with the toolset but even the backup I made and double checked before saving shows the incorrect values.

    I never touched any of those creatures. What I did do was created 4 new npc's for an arena and it seems after creating those creatures the toolset reset all the other creatures in the module.

    I am extremely frustrated right now because 157 creatures will have to be edited and changed, then instances updated etc... again!

    Whats even more frustrating is that the backup has not been touched since I fixed it last time. When loading it in the toolset today the creatures still show the incorrect values.


    If someone could explain to me why this is happening and what I can do to prevent it from happening again that would be awesome... because spending 6 - 8 hours fixing it sucks!
  • ForSeriousForSerious Member Posts: 446
    edited August 2022
    Are the values wrong in the game though? The toolset has a weird bug with item stack sizes. If you use the arrow buttons to change them, it has a hard time actually setting to the size you leave it on. (Typing the value in seems to work correctly every time.) I wonder if it's something similar to that.
  • 4BOLTMAIN4BOLTMAIN Member Posts: 90
    Thanks for the reply and I apologize for the rant... The maximum CR for any creature on my module is 50. Players reported today that certain creatures were not spawning from encounters so this made me look into it more and sure enough... they were changed.

    On Feb 02, 2022 I saved a backup module (copy) with the corrected values and I have never touched that file until today. Since then I have made several new items, placeables and scripts to add or make changes to things and the values didn't change during that time. 2 days ago I added 4 new NPC's for the arena for players to test spell damage that I increased. I think adding those NPC's caused the issue. I loaded up that backup module today and I don't understand why the values were not as they were when I saved the file. I was hoping to just copy the creature files from the temp folder in the backup module and replace the ones in my current module.

    Last time (in February) I remember adding NPC's to a dungeon run for players to use as a portal... rather than just a regular portal. I have not added any new NPC's or changed any until a few days ago. I think it has something to do with making new creatures.

    I am assuming the CR values in game are correct because the creatures that are not spawning from the encounters are the ones with the highest CR shown in the encounter list.

    I guess the only thing i can do is create a test module and experiment and see what i can find.

    I have never had issues using the up and down arrows to set values in the toolset... then again I never build with the challenge rating box checked.
  • Old_GithOld_Gith Member Posts: 152
    edited August 2022
    There's still only two culprits in my book. The first is if the creatures themselves are in a hak already; any editing you may do will still revert to what the creature was in the hak. But that's not typical and most veteran builders know better, but for those new to this game, it is not obvious.

    And the second is the one I had suspected which is the Build Module feature. Both instances where I have pinpointed changed CR values is if I had flagged, either accidentally or by design, the Calculate CR feature. It will redo your manually editted CR values. I know you said you never use it, but I never use it either, and yet on some given day I must had a fancy and checked everything to ferret out any issues, and thus had done it inadvertently.

    2lh90ked9jik.png

    But since that day way back when, I haven't had any issues, and I only use the Build Module feature for compiling scripts (which isn't an ideal compiler, but it gets all 3500 scripts compiled within about 23 seconds).

    Cheers!
  • ForSeriousForSerious Member Posts: 446
    Humm well I don't know, because that has not been a problem for me. I have some really low level creatures, that I manually added some CR to. I've hit the CR in the build tool several times, and they're right where I left them. Maybe it messes things up with higher level creatures and more complex item load-outs.
    I've made some overrides to item stack size and some item property costs for calculating item level restrictions. I would imagine that after that last change, the CR would calculate different on any creatures that had those item properties.

    Since I have much less to lose, I should really runs some tests.
  • 4BOLTMAIN4BOLTMAIN Member Posts: 90
    There is no easy way to fix my module other than editing each creature. I have a module on 1.69 with the correct values. I have tried copying the .utc files from the temp folder to a module on EE but the values do not stay the same no matter what I try. I understand that not copying the custom creatures equipped items will affect the value but first I need to try and understand why the values are changing... even for creatures without custom items.

    Is there another program I can use to edit modules other than the toolset?
  • ForSeriousForSerious Member Posts: 446
    I mentioned moneo and lettoscript before. Sadly, I don't see it applying to your situation easily. Like, the script you would have to make would basically need an if statement for each offending CR, and maybe just all your creatures for good measure. Sure you have those values in a spread sheet, but I don't know how you would be able to read directly form that sheet with the script.

    The main benefit would be once you have figured out how to make the script, tested it to make sure it's working—it might take you the same amount to time as it would to manually change them. But, if you ever have this problem again, it will take 1 second to fix it.

    Would it be more tempting if I wrote the base script for you? Then you'd just have to add all the if statements?
  • 4BOLTMAIN4BOLTMAIN Member Posts: 90
    ForSerious wrote: »
    I mentioned moneo and lettoscript before. Sadly, I don't see it applying to your situation easily. Like, the script you would have to make would basically need an if statement for each offending CR, and maybe just all your creatures for good measure. Sure you have those values in a spread sheet, but I don't know how you would be able to read directly form that sheet with the script.

    The main benefit would be once you have figured out how to make the script, tested it to make sure it's working—it might take you the same amount to time as it would to manually change them. But, if you ever have this problem again, it will take 1 second to fix it.

    Would it be more tempting if I wrote the base script for you? Then you'd just have to add all the if statements?

    Thanks for your help. I can write a script for this but in cases with encounters a script wont help because the encounter always chooses the lowest cr creatures in the list from the palette.

    Right now I would like to figure out why this is happening. Obviously once I figure out why or how this is happening hopefully I can prevent it in the future.

    I will keep trying different things in a new module and see if I can duplicate the change. If I do figure it out I will post what I found.

    I appreciate everyone's feedback.
  • ForSeriousForSerious Member Posts: 446
    edited August 2022
    I thought it could manipulate the palette… I suppose I have not tried to do that yet. So I don't know for sure.
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