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About Sarevok and the end-game plot

ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,036
The end of the story of Baldur's Gate remains somewhat of a mystery to me, so I'm hoping some of you can enlight me on that.

A short recap (major spoilers for anyone who hasn't finished the game!!!):

So we're in the Duchal Palace and we thwart Sarevok's assassination attempt on the last two Grand Dukes, Belt and Liia. After a short confrontation, Winski Perorates appears and teleports himself and Sarevok to the Thieves Guild, where they take the secret passage to the Undercity.

The protagonist follows Sarevok through the maze, only to find Winski Perorate grievously wounded. The mage reveals himself as Sarevok's mentor, having taught him in the "Darkest of Rituals", helping him to ascend as the new Lord of Murder. Winski's goal was to leave his own mark this way and access a better afterlife.

The protagonist then follows Sarevok to his ultimate retreat, an old temple of Bhaal (how fitting!) where he finds him in company of Angelo, Tazok and a mage called Semaj. There Sarevok makes a short speech about how he will rise to power and the protagonist will not, and the game ends as he dies at the hand of the protagonist.

So here are my questions:
- What is Sarevok doing in the Undercity? Is he waiting for the protagonist to come and preparing his defenses?
- What are Angelo and Tazok doing there? Who is Semaj? How did they get there on such short notice?
- Why has Sarevok chosen a Temple of Bhaal to hide in? Doesn't seem coincidental to me, yet I don't know for what concrete reason he would choose that.
- What is the "darkest of rituals" Winski Perorate talked about? Was it Sarevok's tentative to cause large-scale bloodshed in order to awaken his divine essence? Or is it some kind of plan B that Sarevok was going to attempt in that Temple of Bhaal?
- Also I'd like your thoughts, if any, on the Tamoko/Cythandria - Sarevok romance.

Any insight is much appreciated, and might make it into my Let's Play* of the game. Thank you very much!

*

Comments

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited June 2012
    Few things here are official, most are just my opinion and view of the game.

    Well let's go:

    1° - What is Sarevok doing in the Undercity? Is he waiting for the protagonist to come and preparing his defenses?

    He retreated to the undercity, the old city that existed where Baldur's Gate was built. At frist there was the place where he would conduct the old rituals that Winski taught, in the hope of ascend to godhood. Those rituals probally make him strong cos the temple is full of permanent traps that can't be disarmed, and the entire sarevok party was buffed there, so if a final confrontation with main char was necessary, no better place (or appropriate) than there, no?

    By the way if you take a look on the map of the undercity, the maze was not the only entrance there, it's just that the game don't let you go on the other exit.

    2° - What are Angelo and Tazok doing there? Who is Semaj? How did they get there on such short notice?

    Sarevok would kill the 2 remaining dukes with Slythe and Krystin, the job of the Black Talons and Chills where complete already so no need to keep Tazok far, He's useful (to much sometimes...), angelo was the flaming fists capitain in the final of the game, so of course he would be in Baldur's Gate city and Semaj is another mage at his side (Winski was not mentioned that much too)... well i found this link http://www.eeggs.com/items/21573.html that explain a lot ^^!

    Another point is that those four could be bound into a geas (as the assassin on the northeast of Baldur's Gate) so they could not refuse to fight at Sarevok side.

    3° - Why has Sarevok chosen a Temple of Bhaal to hide in? Doesn't seem coincidental to me, yet I don't know for what concrete reason he would choose that.

    Baldur's Gate has a huge sewer system, means that there is plenty of space for builds to be made there. The sewer system is by nature to complex to be made after the Baldur's Gate City, the entire complex is linked and many parts of it are unknow as the sewer king tells (if i'm not wrong).
    The temple of Bhaal was dedicated to a evil deity, and all temples of evil deities have to be hidden or in disguise (what i really find strange is a Talos temple in the middle of Aklatha, but maybe i'm wrong here)

    As i told before probally the rituals there made him stronger while inside (what explain the fucking hard battle, i don't provoke 1 by 1 normally on the end, cos i enjoy fighting the four togheter).

    4° - What is the "darkest of rituals" Winski Perorate talked about? Was it Sarevok's tentative to cause large-scale bloodshed in order to awaken his divine essence? Or is it some kind of plan B that Sarevok was going to attempt in that Temple of Bhaal?


    A lot of ppl on Forgotten Realms did havoc and carnage already, and that don't make them gods, maybe just kill thousands would be not enough to archieve his plot, after all Bhaal's essence is not a complete essence, it's just 1/3 of the old Jergal essence, Lord of the End of Everything.

    5° - Also I'd like your thoughts, if any, on the Tamoko/Cythandria - Sarevok romance.

    The man is a murderer, assassin, sadistic and are going to kill thousands, so have two girlfriends is the least of the problems here, no? Tamoko truly love Sarevok and is good by nature, Cythandria is just a bitch that want take advantage on Sarevok therefore encourages all the shit he does, both are useful so why not (at least that's the way sarevok would think).
    Post edited by kamuizin on
    ZeckulARKdeEREHSpaceInvaderlunar
  • WinthalWinthal Member Posts: 366
    Question remains; why blow through the Thieves Guild? Is that the only way in? Does he always go that way? Apparently not or the thieves would know about it. So there's an alternative entrance, but why doesn't he use it?
    Perhaps he was in a rush (after all he was fleeing from protagonist), and the maze under the thieves guild is simply the closest and fastest way to get there?
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    That seems like the logical choice, but I've never heard anyone say "Let's go through the maze filled with traps and monsters, it's quicker and easier!"

    Though a case can be made for Sarevok probably knowing the maze while the protagonist stumbles about for half an hour, giving Sarevok a neat head start.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    That seems like the logical choice, but I've never heard anyone say "Let's go through the maze filled with traps and monsters, it's quicker and easier!"
    We don't know what's at the other entrance, though ;)

    But yeah, I agree. I think the only two ways to make sense of that move is 1, Sarevok didn't chose to go to that entry, his "teacher" did (because it was the closest?); or 2, Sarevok took that route in an attempt to throw off his pursuitors, hoping that the maze would kill, injure or at the very least tire them before he faced them. And as you say, it also buys him time to prepare for the final battle, in case the maze failed to deal with you.

    I prefer number 2, personally. Makes him seem a bit more cunning.
    dstoltzfus
  • ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,036
    Wow this is great stuff, thanks guys! And I thought BG online communities were largely dead...

    There is some dialogue from Winski Perorate that I had overlooked:

    "Oh, Sarevok is not intent on hiding. You have stripped him of any pretense; there is no longer any point in him maintaining his respectable veneer. Only the most fanatical or fearful of his allies stand by him now. He will gather what resources he can and move on. Of course he knows that you must come to confront him and that it is to his advantage to choose the battleground. There is an altar in the Undercity; it was to be where the ritual would take place, but now serves as his last refuge. If you do not go to him, he will strike at you at his leisure."

    This establishes the following:
    - The Temple of Bhaal in the Undercity is where the "darkest of rituals" was to take place and is likely where Winski Perorate was training him.
    - Sarevok chose this location to fight the protagonist, knowing he would be on his tail. This is coherent with the idea that his most loyal allies (Angelo et aliis) were waiting for him there. Otherwise it'd be hard to explain how Sarevok could have gathered his allies on such short notice.

    This still leaves some unanswered questions:
    - What is that "darkest of rituals"? If Sarevok thought bloodshed on a large scale would cause him to ascend, what part does any ritual in an old temple play in this?
    - I'm not convinced the protagonist "must" go defeat Sarevok, or why if not, Sarevok would "strike at him at his leisure". Couldn't the protagonist just gather support against Sarevok, now that his treachery was revealed? Baldur's Gate was preparing for war anyway, it's not like they don't have soldiers ready. Sarevok has trapped himself in the Undercity, he's a sitting duck.
    nulspace
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    Never realized Semaj was James backwards, haha
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    Just remeber @Zeckul except for the anagrams, all those posts just make conjectures of the individual point of view of each player, they're not absolute truth.
  • irenicusirenicus Member Posts: 2
    edited June 2012
    i adress the question about the darkest of rituals:

    i think the questions should rather than "what is the darkest of rituals" be:
    What have sarevok/winski found in the texts they were searching for information about bhaals heritage/the children of bhaal/the prophecies of alaundo, that lead them to the conclusion there is a darkest of rituals?
    What do sarevok / winski know about the prophecies of alaundo, the throne of bhaal ?
    Since we do not know for sure it is uncertain whether they came to the same conclusions as irenicus or melissan in bg2/tob...
    Winski & sarevok could have misunderstood the prophecies in some way.
    For example the idea that a ritual or causing mass murder could make the bhaal spawn gods.
    Isn't the grain of truth of this assumption that since the throne of bhaal stores the godly energy released by murder and lets all children of bhaal draw upon this power, this means that the less children of bhaal there are to draw power upon the throne, the stronger the remaining ones become ...
    Furthermore the more killing there is the more power can be accessed ...

    so both strategies of sarevok (starting a war & killing other children of bhaal (that's why he was in candlekeep in the beginning after all right?)) make him somehow more powerful in divine hindsight...
    but those plans could also be executed based upon conclusions that weren't informed enough to discover the secret of bhaals instruments of power (the throne) ...

    so what is the darkest of rituals?
    a misinterpretation due to a lack of information (vague prophecies)

    ps:
    another idea that came to me:
    winski could have thought that the ritual would bring sarevok to the place where ToB begins ...
    Post edited by irenicus on
    dstoltzfus
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
    edited April 2013
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  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2013
    Zeckul said:

    - I'm not convinced the protagonist "must" go defeat Sarevok, or why if not, Sarevok would "strike at him at his leisure". Couldn't the protagonist just gather support against Sarevok, now that his treachery was revealed? Baldur's Gate was preparing for war anyway, it's not like they don't have soldiers ready. Sarevok has trapped himself in the Undercity, he's a sitting duck.

    The facts back you up on this. Some people use this as an opportunity to go visit an old dwarven tower for a week or so or to take a few weeks going on a cruise in the footsteps of Balduran in the hopes of seeing some interesting historical sites. Sarevok very rarely strikes those people prior to them arriving at the temple and the protagnist pretty much always arrives more powerful and/or better equipped than prior to her vacation(s).

    My characters frequently arrive there filled with bloodlust but then remember that they have already plopped down 60 gp on that tour with Ike and can't stand the idea of wasting what must be an intriguing guided tour.
    dstoltzfus
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Koveras/Sarevok. Semaj/James. What's next a mysterious Sucineri who pretends to be a flower peddler in the bridge district. Or maybe that is his real job and he moonlights as a power hungry souless elf!?
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Personally, I always thought that the mage in the final battle should have been Cythandria.
    Drugar[Deleted User]DJKajuru
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    1. The Temple is Sarevok's back-up stronghold. He views himself as the rightful heir of a God and has claimed his Father's Temple for his own. Had his plan worked, it would've become the Mecca of his new Divine Rule once he ascend to Godhood. Since his plans were thrown into disarray, he's making a final stand in the heart of what he believes his rightful stronghold.

    2. Angelo is a high ranking Flaming Fist officer, he and would be in Baldur's Gate naturally. More likely, he came to inform Sarevok of your escape from Candlekeep and brought Tazok along. Semaj, was just the last minion left apparently. That said, Sarevok is no fool (especially if you've seen his stats), and knows he needs a mage for countering other mages (especially after the close call he had with a certain old geezer a few weeks/months earlier). On the other hand, he was furious for Winski teleporting him away of his own accord and mortally wounded his mentor in a blind rage, that said, Semaj is lvl 9...which is actually a ridiculously high level for someone who with no lore or backstory, so he's clearly a bad-ass, even if magic can only get a person so far when they spend all their slots on DD like a nub.

    3. Probably when Winski used the ritual to make Sarevok a Deathbringer of Bhaal. Prior to Tales of the Sword Coast, Sarevok also boasted a scripted magic resistance that blocked all spells but magic missile and dispel magic. Dispel magic would remove it for about 4 rounds. Was replaced with 90% Fire resistance after Tales of the Sword Coast. Whether this was some added anti-magic defense he's added after Gorion kicked his butt (Classic BG version events), or a result of a ritual allowing him to draw on his bhaal essence for protection while in the temple is unclear.

    4. Based on some cut dialog from a Sarevok/Yoshimo/Tamoko sub-plot in SoA/ToB, Sarevok met her while still relatively young, late teens, likely working with his foster father on a Kara-tur trade agreement on behalf of the Iron Throne, and during the time they met, she fell in love, and returned to Faerun with him. However, after Reiltar murdered his wife, whom Sarevok had grown to care for as a mother, his Bhaal essence began to awaken, and likely attracted the attention of Winski, who was a follower of Bhaal and took it as a sign of his god's rebirth, one way or another, and began tutoring Sarevok for the role. In the process, he ceased to be the man Tamoko fell in love with, but she remained at his side trying to justify his actions as being everyone else's fault but his own. She eventually wises up, if you talking some sense into her at the temple. Regardless of which choice you take with her regard, she winds up either dead by your hand, or simply goes missing, and after not receiving word from his sister in months, Yoshimo set out to Faerun to try and find her.
    [Deleted User]DrugardstoltzfusAlexisisinneed
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    @Bhaaldog
    Holy thread necromancy Batman! Went digging around the archives?
    Eudaemonium
  • styggastygga Member Posts: 467
    Lol just noticed how old this thread is. Is Tamoko and Yoshimo really brother/sister? Where does it tell you this? I never take Yoshimo to Spellhold, always forget, so I assume there?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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    Eudaemonium
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    But not 'the darkest of arts'? XD
    [Deleted User]
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @kamuizin
    On the temple of Talos in Athkatla topic, most people in the Forgotten Realms worship pray to all or most of the pantheon for various reasons. In Talos' case, normal, non-Evil people pray to him in order to appease him and avert earthquakes and other natural disasters.
    dstoltzfus
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    There shouldn't be an open temple to Talos in Athkatla. There's a temple shared by Chauntea, Selune, and Sune (completely missing in SoA), a temple shared by Torm/Tyr/Helm (present), (Eventually a Temple of Bane, but prior to his revival, there were no open evil temples in Athkatla) and the largest temple of Waukeen in all of Faerun (completely missing in SoA, aside for a tiny spec of it that makes up the Promenade), (the docks district shouldn't exist at all, since that's where the Grand Temple of Waukeen is located (the docks are in the lower part of the temple, and all goods brought in are blessed by Waukeens priests, on their way over to the Promenade, to hopefully give the merchants involved greater luck at haggling a good price).

    For some reason, there's a harper hold that has a temple to Mystra, that shouldn't exist, and large temples to Helm and Lathander, which also shouldn't exist.

    Yes, people do often worship several different gods for short term benefit, outside their patron, but it doesn't change the fact that Athkatla wouldn't allow a temple of Talos (a VERY open temple at that) to be set-up in the town, since Talos is not only Chaotic Evil (Athkatla is primarily a NG, LE, LN in temperament), he is the deity who literally personifies the primal destructive magics that the Athkatlans so despise.


    @stygga it's not mentioned anywhere in the game, aside from a few cut lines that you need game editing tools to find, but the team for the game did officially state that they are indeed bother/sister, and there was a MASSIVE amount more content planned, but due to time constraints was unfortunately cut, it's why YOshimo's quest-line ends abruptly after Spellhold. (Made very obvious by cheating Yoshimo back into the party after he leaves and finding that scenes he's normally impossible to be there for, he has lines for (At the tree, in hell, several in ToB), and even 2 lines in ToB with Sarevok that will eventually fire if you keep them in the party together.
    [Deleted User]Eudaemonium
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Alas, poor Yoshimo :(
    [Deleted User]
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  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Meh, it's supposed to be Enhanced Edition.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • MajocaMajoca Member Posts: 263
    edited April 2013

    Sarevok is not as crazy as you think, just as Hitler was intelligent, charismatic and a powerful leader so is Sarevok he also has the capacity of compassion. I don't want to ruin any future plots in bg2, but when you complete BG2 TOB with Sarevok in your party the credits which display's individual stories of each of your companions. Sarevoks bigoraphy paragraph thing at the end mentions how he struggles with not really living and not really being dead, stuck in a limbo state, he is said to roam across the land eventually storming the gates of hell to find his true love Tomako. So I think he had or did have some sort of feelings for her.

    Edit: I was wrong in a way but here, is my evidence that he loved Tomako more than you know :D

    Post edited by Majoca on
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    @Majoca

    Well, yes i finshed BG & ToB with sarevok a lot of times, but... when i said he's crazy?

    The problem with the alignment systems in AD&D is the fix impressions of a character persona. Being chaotic evil means that his behavior tend to that, he doesn't need to be chaotic or/and evil all the time, the human mind isn't so simple to be defined in 9 kinds.

    But a point to raise is that the Sarevok that died in BG 1 isn't the same that arrise in ToB, death and specially a death of a son of bhaal (which drag the soul of the dead one to the old god realm in the abyss). Even if Sarevok stay evil in ToB, he doesn't think or act with the same line of thoughts as he did before.

    There's nothing there about him storming the gates of hell to find Tamoko (probally because tamoko behavior before her death wasn't entitled to give her a ticket for hell, i found her behavior very good aligned in fact). what happens in the end is that after his disappearance, people on that time didn't know if he killed himself, stormed the gates of hell or what. In the final paragraph, the truth is said, that he went to Kara-Tur to bury his one true love, Tamoko.

    So what can be reviewed from my previous post (the one from june/2012) is that in BG story he doesn't find Tamoko only useful, but he trully loves her.
  • MajocaMajoca Member Posts: 263
    edited April 2013
    @kamuizin

    Well it is the same sarevok in TOB, but people do change the way they think and act. if you read my edit I said I was wrong, so I retract the statement about Hell and that I was recalling from memory, which sometimes twists things. the video was just to state that he actually had compassion and loved someone.
  • hellhoundhellhound Member Posts: 33
    The Sarevok's ending in TOB especially is the reason why he's one of the BEST video-game characters ever created.
    Majoca
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