About Sarevok and the end-game plot
Zeckul
Member Posts: 1,036
The end of the story of Baldur's Gate remains somewhat of a mystery to me, so I'm hoping some of you can enlight me on that.
A short recap (major spoilers for anyone who hasn't finished the game!!!):
So we're in the Duchal Palace and we thwart Sarevok's assassination attempt on the last two Grand Dukes, Belt and Liia. After a short confrontation, Winski Perorates appears and teleports himself and Sarevok to the Thieves Guild, where they take the secret passage to the Undercity.
The protagonist follows Sarevok through the maze, only to find Winski Perorate grievously wounded. The mage reveals himself as Sarevok's mentor, having taught him in the "Darkest of Rituals", helping him to ascend as the new Lord of Murder. Winski's goal was to leave his own mark this way and access a better afterlife.
The protagonist then follows Sarevok to his ultimate retreat, an old temple of Bhaal (how fitting!) where he finds him in company of Angelo, Tazok and a mage called Semaj. There Sarevok makes a short speech about how he will rise to power and the protagonist will not, and the game ends as he dies at the hand of the protagonist.
So here are my questions:
- What is Sarevok doing in the Undercity? Is he waiting for the protagonist to come and preparing his defenses?
- What are Angelo and Tazok doing there? Who is Semaj? How did they get there on such short notice?
- Why has Sarevok chosen a Temple of Bhaal to hide in? Doesn't seem coincidental to me, yet I don't know for what concrete reason he would choose that.
- What is the "darkest of rituals" Winski Perorate talked about? Was it Sarevok's tentative to cause large-scale bloodshed in order to awaken his divine essence? Or is it some kind of plan B that Sarevok was going to attempt in that Temple of Bhaal?
- Also I'd like your thoughts, if any, on the Tamoko/Cythandria - Sarevok romance.
Any insight is much appreciated, and might make it into my Let's Play* of the game. Thank you very much!
*
A short recap (major spoilers for anyone who hasn't finished the game!!!):
So we're in the Duchal Palace and we thwart Sarevok's assassination attempt on the last two Grand Dukes, Belt and Liia. After a short confrontation, Winski Perorates appears and teleports himself and Sarevok to the Thieves Guild, where they take the secret passage to the Undercity.
The protagonist follows Sarevok through the maze, only to find Winski Perorate grievously wounded. The mage reveals himself as Sarevok's mentor, having taught him in the "Darkest of Rituals", helping him to ascend as the new Lord of Murder. Winski's goal was to leave his own mark this way and access a better afterlife.
The protagonist then follows Sarevok to his ultimate retreat, an old temple of Bhaal (how fitting!) where he finds him in company of Angelo, Tazok and a mage called Semaj. There Sarevok makes a short speech about how he will rise to power and the protagonist will not, and the game ends as he dies at the hand of the protagonist.
So here are my questions:
- What is Sarevok doing in the Undercity? Is he waiting for the protagonist to come and preparing his defenses?
- What are Angelo and Tazok doing there? Who is Semaj? How did they get there on such short notice?
- Why has Sarevok chosen a Temple of Bhaal to hide in? Doesn't seem coincidental to me, yet I don't know for what concrete reason he would choose that.
- What is the "darkest of rituals" Winski Perorate talked about? Was it Sarevok's tentative to cause large-scale bloodshed in order to awaken his divine essence? Or is it some kind of plan B that Sarevok was going to attempt in that Temple of Bhaal?
- Also I'd like your thoughts, if any, on the Tamoko/Cythandria - Sarevok romance.
Any insight is much appreciated, and might make it into my Let's Play* of the game. Thank you very much!
*
0
Comments
Well let's go:
1° - What is Sarevok doing in the Undercity? Is he waiting for the protagonist to come and preparing his defenses?
He retreated to the undercity, the old city that existed where Baldur's Gate was built. At frist there was the place where he would conduct the old rituals that Winski taught, in the hope of ascend to godhood. Those rituals probally make him strong cos the temple is full of permanent traps that can't be disarmed, and the entire sarevok party was buffed there, so if a final confrontation with main char was necessary, no better place (or appropriate) than there, no?
By the way if you take a look on the map of the undercity, the maze was not the only entrance there, it's just that the game don't let you go on the other exit.
2° - What are Angelo and Tazok doing there? Who is Semaj? How did they get there on such short notice?
Sarevok would kill the 2 remaining dukes with Slythe and Krystin, the job of the Black Talons and Chills where complete already so no need to keep Tazok far, He's useful (to much sometimes...), angelo was the flaming fists capitain in the final of the game, so of course he would be in Baldur's Gate city and Semaj is another mage at his side (Winski was not mentioned that much too)... well i found this link http://www.eeggs.com/items/21573.html that explain a lot ^^!
Another point is that those four could be bound into a geas (as the assassin on the northeast of Baldur's Gate) so they could not refuse to fight at Sarevok side.
3° - Why has Sarevok chosen a Temple of Bhaal to hide in? Doesn't seem coincidental to me, yet I don't know for what concrete reason he would choose that.
Baldur's Gate has a huge sewer system, means that there is plenty of space for builds to be made there. The sewer system is by nature to complex to be made after the Baldur's Gate City, the entire complex is linked and many parts of it are unknow as the sewer king tells (if i'm not wrong).
The temple of Bhaal was dedicated to a evil deity, and all temples of evil deities have to be hidden or in disguise (what i really find strange is a Talos temple in the middle of Aklatha, but maybe i'm wrong here)
As i told before probally the rituals there made him stronger while inside (what explain the fucking hard battle, i don't provoke 1 by 1 normally on the end, cos i enjoy fighting the four togheter).
4° - What is the "darkest of rituals" Winski Perorate talked about? Was it Sarevok's tentative to cause large-scale bloodshed in order to awaken his divine essence? Or is it some kind of plan B that Sarevok was going to attempt in that Temple of Bhaal?
A lot of ppl on Forgotten Realms did havoc and carnage already, and that don't make them gods, maybe just kill thousands would be not enough to archieve his plot, after all Bhaal's essence is not a complete essence, it's just 1/3 of the old Jergal essence, Lord of the End of Everything.
5° - Also I'd like your thoughts, if any, on the Tamoko/Cythandria - Sarevok romance.
The man is a murderer, assassin, sadistic and are going to kill thousands, so have two girlfriends is the least of the problems here, no? Tamoko truly love Sarevok and is good by nature, Cythandria is just a bitch that want take advantage on Sarevok therefore encourages all the shit he does, both are useful so why not (at least that's the way sarevok would think).
1) That's what I figured as well. Winski came across this temple (or already knew it was there) and trained his Chosen Boy (Sarevok) there in the ways of Bhaal. It was his personal, secret retreat and, having nowhere else to go after his cover is blown, he retreats where he is strongest and most familiar to face the one who would challenge him.
Question remains; why blow through the Thieves Guild? Is that the only way in? Does he always go that way? Apparently not or the thieves would know about it. So there's an alternative entrance, but why doesn't he use it?
2) Tazok is a reasonably intelligent, certainly competent ogre, which is a very good thing to have, along with some bandits to increase the bloodshed-on-a-godlike-scale to come. Angelo owes a lot to Sarevok, so I figure he wants to defend the person who got him promoted and Semaj...seems a bit random, but it never hurts to have a backup mage. Especially because Winski didn't seem powerful as much as just utterly devoted to Bhaal and quite knowledgable.
They can't hang around in the palace, waiting for orders, nor at the Flaming Fist (Tazok stands out), so they wait at the aforementioned Secret Lair.
3) This seems quite logical, the hopeful new Lord of Murder holes up in a temple to his future self. I'm more surprised that the Undercity was basicly some ruins built around a gigantic temple to the old Death God. I'd love to know more about where it came from, if it was there before Baldur's Gate, if not, who built it, etc. It's such a secret thing that's just waiting to be discovered.
4) Note; Nobody knew how this was going to work. The lord of Murder would perish, and leave a score of mortal progeny. Apparently, to fuel his return but how? A mass sacrifice? Through their vile deaths and the murders they committed?
Sarevok interpreted it as: Every one of Bhaal's children has a right to his throne, only the strongest can claim it, the one who causes enough needless deaths in Bhaal's name to be worth to ascend to godhood.
So he tried to start a massive, needless war, resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths, all a sacrifice to Bhaal, hoping that it would feed his essence and through the rituals absorb that essence and become the new Lord of Murder.
It failed, and wasn't the intention of Bhaal at all. He meaned for them all to murder eachother, their essence to collect at the Throne of Bhaal and be reborn himself, disregarding his children. Like most villains, Sarevok drasticly overestimated his importance.
5) I always felt like Tamoko fell in love with Sarevok before he figured out his birthright and loved his 'human' side (not that we've seen much good from that side). She just wanted to live a quiet life with him, away from all this Bhaal business. Unfortunately, she was hopelessly devoted to Sarevok which caused her to seek you out and challenge you, claiming she had failed Sarevok by trying to talk peace with you earlier (provided you actually met her in her obscure location in Baldur's Gate).
Cythandria is a heartless harpy who just wants Sarevok's power and glory and dreams of being the wife of a God some day. She, like most villains, drasticly overestimates her importance.
Though a case can be made for Sarevok probably knowing the maze while the protagonist stumbles about for half an hour, giving Sarevok a neat head start.
But yeah, I agree. I think the only two ways to make sense of that move is 1, Sarevok didn't chose to go to that entry, his "teacher" did (because it was the closest?); or 2, Sarevok took that route in an attempt to throw off his pursuitors, hoping that the maze would kill, injure or at the very least tire them before he faced them. And as you say, it also buys him time to prepare for the final battle, in case the maze failed to deal with you.
I prefer number 2, personally. Makes him seem a bit more cunning.
There is some dialogue from Winski Perorate that I had overlooked:
"Oh, Sarevok is not intent on hiding. You have stripped him of any pretense; there is no longer any point in him maintaining his respectable veneer. Only the most fanatical or fearful of his allies stand by him now. He will gather what resources he can and move on. Of course he knows that you must come to confront him and that it is to his advantage to choose the battleground. There is an altar in the Undercity; it was to be where the ritual would take place, but now serves as his last refuge. If you do not go to him, he will strike at you at his leisure."
This establishes the following:
- The Temple of Bhaal in the Undercity is where the "darkest of rituals" was to take place and is likely where Winski Perorate was training him.
- Sarevok chose this location to fight the protagonist, knowing he would be on his tail. This is coherent with the idea that his most loyal allies (Angelo et aliis) were waiting for him there. Otherwise it'd be hard to explain how Sarevok could have gathered his allies on such short notice.
This still leaves some unanswered questions:
- What is that "darkest of rituals"? If Sarevok thought bloodshed on a large scale would cause him to ascend, what part does any ritual in an old temple play in this?
- I'm not convinced the protagonist "must" go defeat Sarevok, or why if not, Sarevok would "strike at him at his leisure". Couldn't the protagonist just gather support against Sarevok, now that his treachery was revealed? Baldur's Gate was preparing for war anyway, it's not like they don't have soldiers ready. Sarevok has trapped himself in the Undercity, he's a sitting duck.
i think the questions should rather than "what is the darkest of rituals" be:
What have sarevok/winski found in the texts they were searching for information about bhaals heritage/the children of bhaal/the prophecies of alaundo, that lead them to the conclusion there is a darkest of rituals?
What do sarevok / winski know about the prophecies of alaundo, the throne of bhaal ?
Since we do not know for sure it is uncertain whether they came to the same conclusions as irenicus or melissan in bg2/tob...
Winski & sarevok could have misunderstood the prophecies in some way.
For example the idea that a ritual or causing mass murder could make the bhaal spawn gods.
Isn't the grain of truth of this assumption that since the throne of bhaal stores the godly energy released by murder and lets all children of bhaal draw upon this power, this means that the less children of bhaal there are to draw power upon the throne, the stronger the remaining ones become ...
Furthermore the more killing there is the more power can be accessed ...
so both strategies of sarevok (starting a war & killing other children of bhaal (that's why he was in candlekeep in the beginning after all right?)) make him somehow more powerful in divine hindsight...
but those plans could also be executed based upon conclusions that weren't informed enough to discover the secret of bhaals instruments of power (the throne) ...
so what is the darkest of rituals?
a misinterpretation due to a lack of information (vague prophecies)
ps:
another idea that came to me:
winski could have thought that the ritual would bring sarevok to the place where ToB begins ...
My characters frequently arrive there filled with bloodlust but then remember that they have already plopped down 60 gp on that tour with Ike and can't stand the idea of wasting what must be an intriguing guided tour.
2. Angelo is a high ranking Flaming Fist officer, he and would be in Baldur's Gate naturally. More likely, he came to inform Sarevok of your escape from Candlekeep and brought Tazok along. Semaj, was just the last minion left apparently. That said, Sarevok is no fool (especially if you've seen his stats), and knows he needs a mage for countering other mages (especially after the close call he had with a certain old geezer a few weeks/months earlier). On the other hand, he was furious for Winski teleporting him away of his own accord and mortally wounded his mentor in a blind rage, that said, Semaj is lvl 9...which is actually a ridiculously high level for someone who with no lore or backstory, so he's clearly a bad-ass, even if magic can only get a person so far when they spend all their slots on DD like a nub.
3. Probably when Winski used the ritual to make Sarevok a Deathbringer of Bhaal. Prior to Tales of the Sword Coast, Sarevok also boasted a scripted magic resistance that blocked all spells but magic missile and dispel magic. Dispel magic would remove it for about 4 rounds. Was replaced with 90% Fire resistance after Tales of the Sword Coast. Whether this was some added anti-magic defense he's added after Gorion kicked his butt (Classic BG version events), or a result of a ritual allowing him to draw on his bhaal essence for protection while in the temple is unclear.
4. Based on some cut dialog from a Sarevok/Yoshimo/Tamoko sub-plot in SoA/ToB, Sarevok met her while still relatively young, late teens, likely working with his foster father on a Kara-tur trade agreement on behalf of the Iron Throne, and during the time they met, she fell in love, and returned to Faerun with him. However, after Reiltar murdered his wife, whom Sarevok had grown to care for as a mother, his Bhaal essence began to awaken, and likely attracted the attention of Winski, who was a follower of Bhaal and took it as a sign of his god's rebirth, one way or another, and began tutoring Sarevok for the role. In the process, he ceased to be the man Tamoko fell in love with, but she remained at his side trying to justify his actions as being everyone else's fault but his own. She eventually wises up, if you talking some sense into her at the temple. Regardless of which choice you take with her regard, she winds up either dead by your hand, or simply goes missing, and after not receiving word from his sister in months, Yoshimo set out to Faerun to try and find her.
Holy thread necromancy Batman! Went digging around the archives?
On the temple of Talos in Athkatla topic, most people in the Forgotten Realms worship pray to all or most of the pantheon for various reasons. In Talos' case, normal, non-Evil people pray to him in order to appease him and avert earthquakes and other natural disasters.
For some reason, there's a harper hold that has a temple to Mystra, that shouldn't exist, and large temples to Helm and Lathander, which also shouldn't exist.
Yes, people do often worship several different gods for short term benefit, outside their patron, but it doesn't change the fact that Athkatla wouldn't allow a temple of Talos (a VERY open temple at that) to be set-up in the town, since Talos is not only Chaotic Evil (Athkatla is primarily a NG, LE, LN in temperament), he is the deity who literally personifies the primal destructive magics that the Athkatlans so despise.
@stygga it's not mentioned anywhere in the game, aside from a few cut lines that you need game editing tools to find, but the team for the game did officially state that they are indeed bother/sister, and there was a MASSIVE amount more content planned, but due to time constraints was unfortunately cut, it's why YOshimo's quest-line ends abruptly after Spellhold. (Made very obvious by cheating Yoshimo back into the party after he leaves and finding that scenes he's normally impossible to be there for, he has lines for (At the tree, in hell, several in ToB), and even 2 lines in ToB with Sarevok that will eventually fire if you keep them in the party together.
Sarevok is not as crazy as you think, just as Hitler was intelligent, charismatic and a powerful leader so is Sarevok he also has the capacity of compassion. I don't want to ruin any future plots in bg2, but when you complete BG2 TOB with Sarevok in your party the credits which display's individual stories of each of your companions. Sarevoks bigoraphy paragraph thing at the end mentions how he struggles with not really living and not really being dead, stuck in a limbo state, he is said to roam across the land eventually storming the gates of hell to find his true love Tomako. So I think he had or did have some sort of feelings for her.
Edit: I was wrong in a way but here, is my evidence that he loved Tomako more than you know
The problem with the alignment systems in AD&D is the fix impressions of a character persona. Being chaotic evil means that his behavior tend to that, he doesn't need to be chaotic or/and evil all the time, the human mind isn't so simple to be defined in 9 kinds.
But a point to raise is that the Sarevok that died in BG 1 isn't the same that arrise in ToB, death and specially a death of a son of bhaal (which drag the soul of the dead one to the old god realm in the abyss). Even if Sarevok stay evil in ToB, he doesn't think or act with the same line of thoughts as he did before.
There's nothing there about him storming the gates of hell to find Tamoko (probally because tamoko behavior before her death wasn't entitled to give her a ticket for hell, i found her behavior very good aligned in fact). what happens in the end is that after his disappearance, people on that time didn't know if he killed himself, stormed the gates of hell or what. In the final paragraph, the truth is said, that he went to Kara-Tur to bury his one true love, Tamoko.
So what can be reviewed from my previous post (the one from june/2012) is that in BG story he doesn't find Tamoko only useful, but he trully loves her.
Well it is the same sarevok in TOB, but people do change the way they think and act. if you read my edit I said I was wrong, so I retract the statement about Hell and that I was recalling from memory, which sometimes twists things. the video was just to state that he actually had compassion and loved someone.