Is this a good party? What should I keep and or change?

ZeroxSP7

Gonna have at it with this game for the first time. Here's the party I'm thinking of.

1. Paladin

2. Cleric/Ranger (or Fighter/Druid)

3. Fighter/Thief (or Cleric/Thief)

4. Archer (or Fighter)

5. Mage

6. Skald

The races have not been decided yet. My thought process is as the following.

1. The Paladin will be at the front of the group, therefor the main target of attacks and spells. He will also be the "face" of the group and have access to any Paladin exclusive equipment.

2. The Cleric/Ranger will be up front with the Paladin, using blunt weapons and casting buffs and protections before fights.

3. The Fighter/Thief will assume thief responsibilities. He can fight up front with a sword in plate or from the back with a bow in leather.

4. The Archer will provide the best ranged damage anyone could ask for. I will also consider a straight up vanilla Fighter for versatility, being able to fire bows from afar or battle up close with blades.

5. The Mage will provide arcane spells for crowd control and nukes.

6. The Skald will help buff with song.

7. I will also consider a Fighter/Druid paired with a Cleric/Thief as alternatives if I decide to split the spellcasting responsibilities of the Cleric/Ranger, therefor replacing the Cleric/Ranger and Fighter/Thief.

What should I change and what should I keep? And what races should be chosen?

Balrog99

Either group should be fine. The race decision is moot for some of these. Fighter/Druid and Cleric/Ranger can only be half-elf and Paladin is human only. The Skald can be either human or half-elf and it doesn't matter much other than flavor. Skalds have pathetic pickpocket ability so the bonus to that from half-elf is pretty much negligible. The Cleric/Thief can be either gnome for shorty saves, or half-orc for that juicy strength. Keep in mind that gnomes take a hit to their wisdom so that partially negates the one nice benefit. I'd go with half-orc myself for the added punch with slings, but either is OK. The Archer should be an elf for the extra dexterity and bonus to hit with longbows. That leaves the mage. The choice there depends on if you want to kit to a specialty mage or not. Since the Skald can do the nuking pretty well, I'd say go with an elf Enchanter for the extra dexterity with darts and the nice -2 penalty to the devastating enchantment spells. Conjurer is also a favorite since you only lose Divination spells. Conjurers can be human or half-elf and it doesn't matter which you pick (although I like the human mage avatar better myself).

ZeroxSP7

I’d be open to Sorcerer over Mage or specialist if I knew how they worked and progressed.

Balrog99

Sorcerer is good for IWD since scrolls are hard to come by. You'll need to know which spells are most important but your Skald can chip in on spells you're missing, so I like that option. I'd go with an elf sorcerer for the extra dexterity in that case

Balrog99

The only specialist mage I'd go with for your party is an Enchanter. The crowd control spells can be very powerful with all the mobs in IWD. The -2 to saves against enchantment is a good boost to those spells (Hold Person, Hold Monster, Charm Monster, Confusion, Chaos, Charm Person, Emotion, Dire Charm, Domination, Feeblemind). Losing evocation is rough, but damage dealing can be handled by your Skald (and Enchanter can still use Skull Trap, Fire Bolt, Acid Arrow and Horrid Wilting).

The_Baffled_King

I played through IWD:EE and its expansions for the first time towards the beginning of the year (to be more precise, I played to the beginning of Chapter 3, started again and played partway into Chapter 2 twice, and then started again for a fourth time and completed everything with that party). This was the party I settled on, which I was very happy with:

Paladin (Hu); Fighter/Cleric (D); Ranger/Cleric* (HE); Fighter/Thief (Ha); Fighter/Mage (E); Bard (HE).

(*I used the "cheat" menu option to enable Druid spells from level 1)

I don't know how much you know about IWD, but if you haven't looked into it much then the best advice is this: your prior experience of the Baldur's Gate games will be a big help, but if you assume that everything that applied in BG and BGII will apply in IWD, you might end up causing problems for yourself. Here are a few key differences to keep in mind:

1. It has far larger enemy groups.
2. It doesn't have high-level enemy Mages with loads of spell protections.
3. It's very stingy in terms of the amount of spell scrolls that exist in the game.
4. Access to spell scrolls of any given level lags behind ability to cast spells of that level.
5. Specialist mages have different and additional restricted spell schools (see here).
6. Some spells work differently than in the BG games.
7. It has a lot of undead, including areas full of skeletal undead, or undead immune to normal weapons.
8. It has a fair amount of race or class-specific items and dialog.
9. A lot of loot is randomised.
10. Some weapon types receive very little support.
11. Icewind Dale is far shorter than the BG games

Either of your proposed parties will be fine, but I have a few thoughts:

1. Paladin: A good choice, although Undead Hunter is vastly superior to unkitted Paladin in IWD. I only used the Paladin because IWD was designed without kits (they are backported to the EE from BGII), and I wanted a more authentic IWD experience. You'll want proficiency in a blunt weapon to begin with, due to the skeletons, but plan to specialize in Long Sword later.

2. Cleric/Ranger (or Fighter/Druid): Both good choices. If you go for a Fighter/Druid, note that some of the Druid weapons have very little support. Don't take Spear or Quaterstaff as early choices (impossible to get a magic weapon until the very end of Chapter 2), and if you go for Club or Scimitar, you're very likely to have to buy a magic weapon from a merchant (there is a good and cheap +2 Scimitar). Note that Icewind Dale has several extra Druid spells, some of which are pretty good.

3. Fighter/Thief (or Cleric/Thief): Both good choices. Single class Thieves are poor in IWD.

4. Archer (or Fighter): A sketchy choice. Archer is powerful, but its utility in IWD is limited by three factors: (1) magic arrows are fairly hard to come by (and fire and acid arrows are best saved for trolls); (2) there are a fair amount of enemies immune to non-magic weapons; and (3) ranged weapons are bad against the plentiful skeletal undead. I also don't see the point in a Fighter designed to switch between melee and ranged; the strength of the Fighter is in making the most of Grandmastery. If you don't go for the Archer, you're better off using this slot for a Fighter multiclass that uses ranged weapons but can melee if needed.

5. Mage: A bad choice. Taking a single class Mage (an Invoker) was what made me abandon my first IWD playthrough! Even though I had a decent idea of where and when I would pick up arcane scrolls (from the excellent wiki article here), I didn't realise I'd gain XP so quickly that I had spell slots but no spells to cast (and that this would persist through the game), and it just felt unfun. I'd recommend a Sorceror or a Fighter/Mage here, or maybe a Fighter > Mage dual. A Mage/Thief is also a decent option, freeing up slot 3 for you, although I tend to prefer Fighter multis. You can even get by without a Mage if you have a Bard/Skald and a couple of Divine casters.

6. Skald: A good choice, but I'd recommend unkitted Bard. The IWD version of the Bard is arguably better than Skald but, either way, you can use a Skald in the BG games, whereas you only get to play the IWD Bard in IWD (see here for details of the IWD Bard).

ETA: Added a point 11; added info about IWD having extra Druid spells

ZeroxSP7

Well the idea for the single class Fighter is to get Grand Mastery in a ranged weapon and then Grand Mastery in a melee weapon. So at start I would put 2 points in longbow and 2 points in a melee weapon of choice then work towards Grand Mastery in longbows first. Then Grand Mastery in the melee choice next.

I’d be more inclined to choose a Sorcerer over a straight vanilla Mage if I knew how they worked and progressed. Same for a Fighter/Mage multi.

The_Baffled_King

ZeroxSP7 wrote: »

Well the idea for the single class Fighter is to get Grand Mastery in a ranged weapon and then Grand Mastery in a melee weapon. So at start I would put 2 points in longbow and 2 points in a melee weapon of choice then work towards Grand Mastery in longbows first. Then Grand Mastery in the melee choice next.

Sure, it sounds better when you put it that way, although it still isn't what I'd go for. But, like I said, and like Balrog99 said, either of the party lineups you suggested will do just fine.

ZeroxSP7 wrote: »

I’d be more inclined to choose a Sorcerer over a straight vanilla Mage if I knew how they worked and progressed. Same for a Fighter/Mage multi.

Judging from your post, you already know how the Fighter works, how the Mage works, and how other Fighter multiclasses work, so what is it about the Fighter/Mage that's unclear to you? As for the Sorcerer, what do you mean by "how they worked and progressed"?

Balrog99 wrote: »

I'd say go with an elf Enchanter for the extra dexterity with darts and the nice -2 penalty to the devastating enchantment spells. Conjurer is also a favorite since you only lose Divination spells.

I dislike Enchanter in IWD due to the higher percentage of undead you end up facing. Also, in IWD, Conjurers have Evocation as their barred school, not Divination.

Balrog99

The_Baffled_King wrote: »

ZeroxSP7 wrote: »

Well the idea for the single class Fighter is to get Grand Mastery in a ranged weapon and then Grand Mastery in a melee weapon. So at start I would put 2 points in longbow and 2 points in a melee weapon of choice then work towards Grand Mastery in longbows first. Then Grand Mastery in the melee choice next.

Sure, it sounds better when you put it that way, although it still isn't what I'd go for. But, like I said, and like Balrog99 said, either of the party lineups you suggested will do just fine.

ZeroxSP7 wrote: »

I’d be more inclined to choose a Sorcerer over a straight vanilla Mage if I knew how they worked and progressed. Same for a Fighter/Mage multi.

Judging from your post, you already know how the Fighter works, how the Mage works, and how other Fighter multiclasses work, so what is it about the Fighter/Mage that's unclear to you? As for the Sorcerer, what do you mean by "how they worked and progressed"?

Balrog99 wrote: »

I'd say go with an elf Enchanter for the extra dexterity with darts and the nice -2 penalty to the devastating enchantment spells. Conjurer is also a favorite since you only lose Divination spells.

I dislike Enchanter in IWD due to the higher percentage of undead you end up facing. Also, in IWD, Conjurers have Evocation as their barred school, not Divination.

Fair point about Enchanter in IWD, but Skull Trap is still viable against Undead so having a mage that specializes in crowd control can still be viable. I usually play in Legacy of Bhaal mode these days though, so that might explain my thoughts. In LoB, the usual damage dealing spells (fireball, chain lightning et al) are underwhelming when all the enemies have oodles of hit points. Also, the huge hordes of enemies that get to you more quickly than in BG tend to make it so I hit my own guys more often than not with the damage dealing spells. That's made even worse when some of the better ones like horrid wilting and chain lightning aren't party friendly anymore...

Balrog99

Just had a thought, a Sorcerer that takes a lot of the arcane summoning spells might be a cool way to go. A few invisible stalkers or a well placed carrion crawler or wyvern could be interesting (especially in Legacy of Bhaal where summons have the same hit point bump as the enemies). I've mentioned this in other threads, but if your Skald is true neutral your familiar will be a rabbit that can disarm many of the traps. With a rabbit and the knock spell you can get away with not having a party thief. Dragons Eye is a bitch, but after that I find you don't really need a thief very often. There's even a trick where you can have your rabbit pickpocket potions of master thievery and/or perception from one of your guys to disarm particularly tricky traps (but I'm not sure you get any of those potions before Dragon's Eye). You can also cast Luck on the rabbit to get a little boost to its thieving abilities (only 5% but comes in handy sometimes).

The_Baffled_King

Balrog99 wrote: »

Fair point about Enchanter in IWD, but Skull Trap is still viable against Undead so having a mage that specializes in crowd control can still be viable. I usually play in Legacy of Bhaal mode these days though, so that might explain my thoughts. In LoB, the usual damage dealing spells (fireball, chain lightning et al) are underwhelming when all the enemies have oodles of hit points. Also, the huge hordes of enemies that get to you more quickly than in BG tend to make it so I hit my own guys more often than not with the damage dealing spells. That's made even worse when some of the better ones like horrid wilting and chain lightning aren't party friendly anymore...

Yeah, Legacy of Bhaal mode makes a huge difference for spell choices. However, whereas Enchanters can't cast Evocation spells, IWD Invokers still get to cast Enchantment spells (their barred schools are Conjuration and Divination in IWD), so I feel that the Invoker has the most to offer on non-LoB difficulties (especially with a Bard to cast Conjuration and Divination).

Magic Missile, Web, and Stinking Cloud are all huge losses for the Enchanter, with Web in particular being great for crowd control both in general and against undead in particular. Fireball (and Aganazzar's Scorcher) also have additional utility as troll kiillers and against enemies with vulnerability to fire damage. I will admit to "cheating" by using the display AoE option...

Balrog99 wrote: »

I've mentioned this in other threads, but if your Skald is true neutral your familiar will be a rabbit that can disarm many of the traps. With a rabbit and the knock spell you can get away with not having a party thief. Dragons Eye is a bitch, but after that I find you don't really need a thief very often. There's even a trick where you can have your rabbit pickpocket potions of master thievery and/or perception from one of your guys to disarm particularly tricky traps (but I'm not sure you get any of those potions before Dragon's Eye). You can also cast Luck on the rabbit to get a little boost to its thieving abilities (only 5% but comes in handy sometimes).

All true (and with an IWD unkitted Bard, I assume Tymora's Medley would work on the Rabbit). That said, if the OP is on their first run in IWD, and they aren't confident in how Sorcerer and Fighter/Mage work, I'd imagine that Rabbit Familiar as party thief is probably not a suitable tactic for them at this stage. A Fighter/Thief is still a great choice.