Party Mechanics

mattsa_01

I am playing Baldur's Gate EE on Xbox. I am having hard time finding platform dependent documentation. Just wondering about the reforming party options. I have started the game with a full party. If I choose to remove party members, can I get them back at a later time? Since I cannot backup the game on Xbox, and I am uncertain of the effects of this type of action on previous saves (if I reload to a point before removing the character, will the character still be there), I'd rather not take any chances. For instance, if I removed two characters while staying at the inn in Nashkel, could I have Minsc join for quest to Gnoll Stronghold, then return to Nashkel, remove Minsc and his consort, then go to inn and get my two removed party members back? I have heard of exporting characters but do not see how this would help for my current problem.

Thanks!

jmerry

Yes. Player-created characters have a very simple dialogue if you dismiss them from the party; if you talk to them, they'll ask "So do you want me back in the party?", which you can answer "Yes." or "No." They'll stay where you leave them, unless you invite them back into the party.

mattsa_01

Great. Life saver.

agentOO0

Normally yes, but not always. Some companions will leave permanently if your rep is too high or too low at the time you dismiss them. This happened to me with Kagain. I think my rep was 16, and I dismissed him to take in Rasaad just to do his quest. Kagain, who is lawful evil, decided to leave permanently because he was unhappy with such a goodie two-shoes party.

jmerry

Kagain doesn't have a problem with 16 rep; like most evil companions, he's OK with anything up to 18 but will leave permanently at 19 rep.

Which has nothing to do with the question actually asked in this thread. It's not about the companions you recruit along the way. It's about companions you create at the beginning of the game with the "Create Party" button; those will always come back to the party if you ask them to.

agentOO0

jmerry wrote: »

Kagain doesn't have a problem with 16 rep; like most evil companions, he's OK with anything up to 18 but will leave permanently at 19 rep.

Which has nothing to do with the question actually asked in this thread. It's not about the companions you recruit along the way. It's about companions you create at the beginning of the game with the "Create Party" button; those will always come back to the party if you ask them to.

He won't leave the party out of the blue if your rep is 16, but if you dismiss him while your rep is 16, then he may say this party sucks anyway, and just walk off permanently instead of waiting for you where dismissed. As I said, this happened to me when I dismissed him to take in Rasaad temporarily for his quest, and people report the same with Viconia and Edwin too (maybe all evil companions?). It's a bit unclear what the exact threshold of good rep is that causes evil party members to leave permanently when dismissed. Some people say Edwin may leave permanently if dismissed when rep is 13+, others say 17+, and yet others say it depends on how long your rep has been good (how long has that specific companion been complaining about too high a rep). Personally I never dismiss an evil companion temporarily if my rep is above 15.

jmerry

Unless you mod it, it's always the same for the evil companions. Anything up to 18 is fine, 19 is a breaking point. Measured when they talk to you; if you dismiss one of them and then have your reputation rise to paragon levels before speaking to them again, that'll convince them to leave forever.

The exceptions aren't cases of being more restrictive - they're cases of being less restrictive. For example, Korgan in ToB won't leave no matter how high your reputation gets.

The_Baffled_King

jmerry wrote: »

Yes. Player-created characters have a very simple dialogue if you dismiss them from the party; if you talk to them, they'll ask "So do you want me back in the party?", which you can answer "Yes." or "No." They'll stay where you leave them, unless you invite them back into the party.

To be clear, this answers the question asked by the OP.

jmerry wrote: »

Unless you mod it, it's always the same for the evil companions. Anything up to 18 is fine, 19 is a breaking point. Measured when they talk to you; if you dismiss one of them and then have your reputation rise to paragon levels before speaking to them again, that'll convince them to leave forever.

I'm almost certain you're wrong. That is to say you're correct that 19 Rep is the breaking point for Evil companions to leave of their own accord. You're incorrect to say it works in the same way for Evil companions when the PC chooses to dismiss them; I believe they leave permanently in these circumstances at 16 Rep in BG:EE. Look at HAPPY.2DA, HAPPY.IDS, and the dialog files, which tend to use triggers referencing "Happiness(Myself,UNHAPPY_ANGRY_BOUNDARY)". I can't be bothered to look at all of them, but no doubt most, if not all, reference the IDS file rather than directly checking Reputation.

agentOO0 wrote: »

It's a bit unclear what the exact threshold of good rep is that causes evil party members to leave permanently when dismissed. ... others say it depends on how long your rep has been good (how long has that specific companion been complaining about too high a rep). ... Personally I never dismiss an evil companion temporarily if my rep is above 15.

Correct. The default threshold for Evil companions to leave permanently when the PC dismisses them in BG:EE is 16. It has nothing to do with timers; people may be confusing this with leaving because quest timers have expired, particularly if the companion was already complaining due to high Reputation.

jmerry

The_Baffled_King wrote: »

I believe they leave permanently in these circumstances at 16 Rep in BG:EE. Look at HAPPY.2DA, HAPPY.IDS, and the dialog files, which tend to use triggers referencing "Happiness(Myself,UNHAPPY_ANGRY_BOUNDARY)". I can't be bothered to look at all of them, but no doubt most, if not all, reference the IDS file rather than directly checking Reputation.

Oh. That's very weird. HAPPY.2DA is different between BGEE and BG2EE, in a way that actually matters. UNHAPPY_ANGRY_BOUNDARY is exactly -160 in both games. The numerical happiness value for evil companions at 16 rep is exactly -160 in both games. But at 17, it's -161 in BGEE and -160 in BG2EE. At 18, it's -162 in BGEE and -160 in BG2EE. At reputation 19, that value goes to -300 in both games. The standard condition in the BGEE dialogue is "HappinessLT(Myself,UNHAPPY_ANGRY_BOUNDARY"; that LT means strict inequality. So, for evil companions, it would be satisfied at rep 17 in BGEE or rep 19 in BG2EE. 16 is safe, though, that trigger evaluates -160 < -160 as FALSE.

That is, if BG2EE even used the same condition on the triggers; instead, it uses "HappinessLT(Myself, -290)". Silly me, assuming that a game mechanic like this would be consistent.
Incidentally, the EE companions use the BG2 thresholds, even in the BG1 campaign. In SoD, companions use the BG2 thresholds but head to the camp instead of leaving forever; that is, if they leave due to reputation at all.

There's another value in the IDS, UNHAPPY_BREAKING_BOUNDARY at -300. That's what it takes for companions to spontaneously leave, if they leave at all. And that, at least, is consistent between games.