Need Help with Trilogy Run Build
GreyWarden
Member Posts: 7
Hello all! with Baldur's Gate 3 right around the corner, I wanted to do a Trilogy run with the same character (beat BG1 before, but never played BG2).
I need help with figuring out what to play as. I was considering doing Fight/Mage Two Weapon Fighting, pretty standard.
However, I do like archery in games and wanted to be an Archer, but one that uses magic. So I was considering the Fighter/Mage multi or a Fight > Mage dual class.
What are your guys' opinions on certain combos like Wizard Slayer > Mage, etc.
I'm open to other suggestions, but would like to go Elf and keep a mix of Magic and Martial ability.
Thanks!
I need help with figuring out what to play as. I was considering doing Fight/Mage Two Weapon Fighting, pretty standard.
However, I do like archery in games and wanted to be an Archer, but one that uses magic. So I was considering the Fighter/Mage multi or a Fight > Mage dual class.
What are your guys' opinions on certain combos like Wizard Slayer > Mage, etc.
I'm open to other suggestions, but would like to go Elf and keep a mix of Magic and Martial ability.
Thanks!
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Comments
Id say play a gnome fighter ilusionist, its very broken.
Can you elaborate?
And yea, I see the Gnome Illusionist reccomended all the time but I prefer to use Elves and/or Humans. Generally taller humanoids
If you dual at 13 , that's when the fighter gets 2 APR right? How many levels of mage would I get then? Dual classing is a bit fuzzy to me
The wizard slayer cant use magical items, you miss out on good stuff you simply cant equip.
Plus Mages always have spells up protecting them, so the wizard slayer miscast ability never hits, and when it hits , mage is gonna die in 2 hits anyway. It was a very poor thought out class. Id rather go with a vanilla fighter honestly. I dont think the free MR is worth losing so much.
If you want to power game, you're best off doing a Berserker -> Mage build. It's arguably the most overpowered build in the game. The berserker bonuses are key in BG2 fights. And he'll do well.
But based on what you said below, I think an Elf fighter/mage multi would be best. I would start with longbows for BG1. You'll dominate with bows and a mix of spells. Then switch to dual wield long swords for BG2. You'll have a decent enough HP pool by then and spell options for further protection. Maybe add shortbows if you want a better ranged option for late BG2.
Normally people dual from kensai or berserker to mage at level 9, but if you want to use bows, then obviously the kensai and berserker classes aren't a good fit. Wizard slayer sucks because they can't even use most potions (so no giant strength potions, no potions to protect you from magic, etc.), not to mention all the equipment restrictions, and barbs can't dual, so you are left with the vanilla fighter, and I'd recommend specializing in the crossbow because you have The Army Scythe in BG1/SoD (best ranged damage in the game with lightning bolts), and then there's the Firetooth in BG2. For your melee weapon, just take something you don't need to leave for companions. For example, flails are obviously great, arguably the best melee weapons, but if you plan to take Anomen, then you may want to leave the flails for him. The long sword is always a decent choice.
If you decide to go with the multi, then I normally recommend the gnome fighter/illusionist with crossbow and scimitars to start with (assuming you are good aligned so that you can use Twinkle but don't mind killing Drizzt for his +3 scimitars), otherwise short swords or long swords can be good. However, the fighter/mage normally plays as a buffer fighter, so you'd cast stuff like Mirror Image, Blur, Stoneskin, Spirit Armor, spell protections, etc. then melee enemies up front. If you want to play more as a ranged fighter/mage, then I'd go with the elf and shortbow, just because gnomes lose necromancy, which isn't a big deal imo, but if you plan to play from range, then you'll want spells like Skull Trap and Horrid Wilting, which are necro spells so hence the elf (plus they get a bonus to long and short sword, and long- and shortbow, so it makes sense to go for those weapons - longbow is better than the shortbow in BG1/SoD, but worse in BG2 so hence better to just go with the shortbow if you plan to make this a trilogy run).
If you were going ranged with magic, would you go Fighter 9 then Mage the rest of the way?
Not sure what's a better trade off. The even leveling of F/M and continual Fighter levels but giving up major spell power and grandmastery or getting grandmastery in crossbows and giving up later fighter levels but getting more potent magic.
Fighter9/mage is considered the sweet spot for dualing because you get most of the early fighter benefits (obviously no fighter HLA's), lose basically none of the vanilla mage benefits, and the dualing downtime isn't too bad.
In terms of what to play, both are top tier classes, so it just depends on whether you want the consistent fighter/mage play experience of a f/m multi, or the greater endgame mage power of the f/m dual.
Thank you very much for spending the time to converse with me. I think I'll be going the Dual route since I have tried F/M already. I am still debating whether I should do Melee or Ranged. I have heard that Ranged falls off in the Throne of Bhaal expansion, but by that point I could certainly make up for that through Mage spells and HLAs.
Do you like Kensai or Berserker mage more?
Berserker can get around the kit's disadvantage by focusing on axes or daggers. Both have ranged (thrown) options. Both are actually great choices for the saga. Daggers are good throughout, despite their low base damage, with an early, purchasable option for BG1 that works for the whole game. Beruel's retort is a sneaky good early option for Axes in BG1. Just buy one cheap set and key it on melee style.
As others have said, IMO, the precise OP dual build is 9 berserker -> mage. You spend all of BG1 as berserker but it's fine. And the best way to do that is focus on Axes or Daggers imo. I would still argue a demi-human multi is more newbie friendly. No down time, constant power gain. Still an MVP of the late game.
Berserker for me. Kensai are just worse at low levels (all of BG1), and the berserker's rage ability will be useful even after you dual.
Yeah, I feel the fighter/mage is better suited for melee fighting because your spells, fighter HP, and rage ability pretty much make you an almost invincible tank. And later on, when your mage levels are way ahead of the fighter levels, you'll mostly use spells anyway.
You can still put one point in crossbow or longbow to make BG1 smoother; a fighter with one point in anything is very formidable with that weapon. Some people consider it a waste to invest in a ranged proficiency since in BG2 you won't use ranged much anymore, and you can just use spells including Melf's Minute Meteors for range, but it does help a lot with BG1 and SoD. Or you can go with daggers or axes because you can grandmaster either with the berserker, and use them for both melee and ranged. If you do forgo a ranged proficiency, just remember that you can still use ranged weapons, you just won't be as good with them.
I have played BG1 and half of SoD so I'm ok with doing the more complicated dualing things time around.
I'm just in the fence of doing Fighter 9 w/Grandmaster Crossbow for Firetooth > Mage or the Berserker 9 > Mage.
If by the end I'll just be using mainly my mage stuff, I might as well just stay at range. Though you mention axes and daggers, which is a good alternative. I remembered Azuredge being a decent weapon. Plus I think throwable weapons actually get damage based off Strength, right?
I see. Thanks for the help thus far, it's truly appreciated.
I suppose the only other thing left is weapon choice. Originally I planned on Two Weapon Fighting F/M but doing. Berserker 9 would leave me with just enough points for 1 Grandmaster. So do ppl typically just use 1 weapon (for melee) for Berserker 9 > Mage?
Your fighter starts with 4 points but you of course can only put them into two in different things, so lets say you put them in long sword and two weapon style, 2 points each. Then at levels 3, 6 and 9 you'd put 3 more points into the long sword to grandmaster it by early SoD (or early BG2 if you are skipping SoD). Then you dual to mage and get one starting point for the wizard, let's say daggers (even if you took daggers with the fighter, these points wouldn't stack so you should invest it into something the fighter did not take). Then at levels 6*, 12, 18, 24 and 30 each, you'll get another proficiency point from your mage levels, so in theory you could grandmaster something else, but you would get it super late, so your main weapon pick as a fighter would be the weapon you'll mainly use throughout the trilogy. The other points you might put into secondary weapons that have effects you want like scimitar for Belm or short sword for Kundane to off-hand one of them for the extra attack (from the main-hand weapon), or mace of disruption to deal with undead better and for level drain protection, or Crom Faeyr to get str 25 and insta-slay certain enemies. Normally you would only put a point or two into these weapons since you don't really need to grandmaster your off-hand weapon or a situational weapon.
*about mage level 6: Since your fighter side is still dormant, you can only put this proficiency point into something the mage can learn, so if you took daggers earlier and mages can of course only put 1 point into each of their weapons, then you could put this second mage point into the quarterstaff, for example. However, if you decide to sit at your mage level 5 until you have enough XP to level all the way to mage 10 and thereby regain your fighter levels, then you can put this level 6 point into any fighter weapon too, or put a second point into the dagger, for example. If you are doing scroll scribing cheese in BG2 to gain XP fast, then this is the way to go, but even if you decide to dual in SoD and play it so that you'll get your fighter levels back by the end of SoD, then you could still sit at your mage level 5 until you have enough XP to go directly to 10, and just let your party carry you - obviously that'll be tougher and less fun, but then you don't waste that mage level 6 proficiency point.
note: In my example, I used long swords and two weapon style to start the fighter off, but even if I didn't put points into a ranged weapon, I'd still use the longbow with my fighter in BG1/SoD for when I didn't want to melee enemies due to traps or because they had some nasty melee weapon effect or early levels because I was too squishy. Also, you could just start with your melee weapon of choice with 2 points, 1 point in two weapon style, 1 point in longbow, and then get two weapon style to 2 or 3 later on after you've finished grandmastering your main melee weapon of choice and have finished the dualing downtime. Plus there's of course the option to go with axes or daggers too.
You might not necessarily play as a dual wielder in BG1, but the idea is that once the dual unlocks in SoA, that is an option alongside throwing axes. There are good drops for both thrown axes and melee axes in BG2. Youll have just enough points at berserker 9 to just hit grandmastery in the one weapon you started with. This is why 9 is such a common dual point.
A high strength character benefits greatly from axes. And by BG2 you'll have access to alot of items that buff your strength well beyond their base levels, potentially giving you a huge damage boost you can't quite get with crossbow. The downside is that the missile animation is slower, so it's an inferior ranged option for the purposes of spell interrupting. But likely better damage output than bows.
If, instead you want to go the crossbow build, which sounds totally legit and strong too, then I would probably invest in a blunt melee weapon, with those extra two starting pips. Just to have the best kind of alternative to missile resistant enemies. Any blunt weapon aside from clubs is a fair choice, will depend on who the rest of your party is. You'll be more of a spellcaster interrupter this way, you will be able to have a superior thaco too, but likely less damage than axes. And obviously you wont be as great in melee. But being on the backline, you wont have to spend a ton of spell slots on protections. Those are the tradeoffs for the two builds imo.
ARCANE ARCHER: Master of the elven warbands, the arcane archer is a warrior skilled in using magic to supplement their combat prowess. Beyond the woods, arcane archers gain renown throughout entire kingdoms for their supernatural accuracy with a bow and their ability to imbue their arrows with magic. In a group, they can strike fear into an entire enemy army. While human arcane archers are rare due to elvenkind withholding their secret techniques, they are not unheard of.
Advantages:
– +1 to hit with any missile weapon at level 1 and every 5 levels thereafter.
– Gains the Enhance Arrow ability.
ENHANCE ARROW: The arcane archer passively imbues <PRO_HISHER> arrows with magic. Projectiles launched by the arcane archer are always treated as weapons of +1 enchantment and deal one extra point of magic damage, increasing by one for every five levels gained to a maximum of +5 enchantment and five magic damage at 20th level. Additional damage is affected by the target’s magic resistance.
– 3rd level: May use Entropic Shield once per day.
ENTROPIC SHIELD: A magical field glowing with a multicolored hue appears around the arcane archer, providing immunity to normal missiles and a -2 bonus to armor class against missile weapons for 1 round per level. This bonus increases to -4 at 10th level and -6 at 17th level.
– 5th level: May use Imbue Arrow ability three times per day.
IMBUE ARROW: Using arcane magic, the arcane archer enchants <PRO_HISHER> next missile within one round to explode, dealing 1d6 additional fire damage for every five levels gained thereafter in an area of effect.
– 9th level: May use Seeker Arrow ability once per day.
SEEKER ARROW: A skilled arcane archer can enchant <PRO_HISHER> arrows to strike its target unerringly. <PRO_HISHER> next missile attack within one round is a guaranteed critical hit and deals two points of extra damage for every five levels gained thereafter.
– 13th level: May use Phase Arrow ability once per day.
PHASE ARROW: An experienced arcane archer can enchant <PRO_HISHER> next arrow within one round to become an incorporeal missile that penetrates armor, dealing 4d6 bonus magical damage and reducing the target’s missile resistance by 50% as well as their armor class vs. missiles by two points every five levels gained thereafter for 1 turn.
– 17th level: May use Arrow of Death ability once per day.
ARROW OF DEATH: A master arcane archer can enchant <PRO_HISHER> next arrow within one round to instantly slay <PRO_HISHER> foe. Targets with more than 60 hit points may make a save vs. death to avoid the effect. Saving throw penalty increases by one for every five levels gained thereafter.
Disadvantages:
– Hit Die: d8
– THAC0 penalty of 2 when wielding a melee weapon.
– May not use Power Attack or Expertise.
– Does not gain Specialization in all weapons at 16th level.
– Race restricted to human, elf or half-elf.
– May not exceed proficiency (one slot) in weapons other than longbows, shortbows and crossbows.
– May not exceed proficiency (one slot) in any weapon style.
– May not wear armor heavier than elven chain mail.
https://artisans-corner.com/the-artisans-kitpack/
Short and generic answer: F13/M or multi for HLA
Long and complex answer
First of all - why 2 classes?
- Do you want some fighter levels to defend yourself at the beginning since the wizard sucks the first few levels? Do you want to be able to equip items that the mage is restricted from equipping?
In this case, a couple of levels are enough, this gives you some additional benefits of the fight like equip helmets or plate mail for some (dead magic) zones, and one skill like berserker rage if you chose the kit.
- Do you want to be able to support your team with ranged weapons instead of spending magic to deal with less powerful enemies?
Here you can look to gain the 3 pips on the right weapon if you want to specialize without abusing or have 2/2 for example short bow and darts to take advantage of magic projectiles without missing for the right moments.
You can also focus on getting a bow or crossbow that will set the number of attacks instead of looking for the fighter level that will give you the APRs since you are not a pure fighter you don't need to waste too much exp here.
- Or you're looking for a high-level killing machine so you don't have problems with the last bosses. This can be managed in two ways:
Reach the optimal level to dualize (9 or 13) according to your taste and patience to recover your skills
OR
Play from the beginning with a multi and enjoy all the way, at first is not the most optimal but finally you'll get both classes HLAs
if you still can't decide here are some other tips: think about what you are going to enjoy more or what you are not willing to sacrifice, depending on if your style is long term, if you don't mind not casting magic from the beginning, if you want the fighter HLAs or don't mind not accessing them, if your character's background fits better with one or another mechanic, what fighting style and weapons you are going to use either more focused on magic or weapons or if it is a combination all the time, if you are only going to use magic when things get serious, if you have enough experience in the game to complete it smoothly and shine in the final part. ...