First play through as multi Mage/Thief?
Mlleko
Member Posts: 1
Hello.
I decided to play whole trilogy one class, as Mage/Thief multi class.
It will be my first run in this game. I'd like to play BG before BG3 release.
I read a little about classes and I'd like to play as Mage/Thief with short bow
. But recently I read topic where someone don't recommend this multi because then Mage don't have profit with Thief if is another Thief in party like Imoen and my multi don't reach good lvl before BG2.
So after read this I don't know what I should do. Should I think about changing class or not bother because this choice is good and I won't have problems?
Thanks and have a good day.
I decided to play whole trilogy one class, as Mage/Thief multi class.
It will be my first run in this game. I'd like to play BG before BG3 release.
I read a little about classes and I'd like to play as Mage/Thief with short bow
. But recently I read topic where someone don't recommend this multi because then Mage don't have profit with Thief if is another Thief in party like Imoen and my multi don't reach good lvl before BG2.So after read this I don't know what I should do. Should I think about changing class or not bother because this choice is good and I won't have problems?
Thanks and have a good day.
0
Comments
Yes, there are multiple mage/thief combinations in BG2; Imoen and Nalia are duals, while Jan is a multiclass. But you know what? You don't have to recruit any of them.
I won't spoil anything about the run. But just some general advice. Prioritize boosting open locks and find traps first. You can progress without those skills being very high but it's a very unsatisfying way to play. The fun and intended way to play the saga is to have a thief with at least those skills. However, don't go over 100 points in any skills except the sneaking skills -- Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. 100 is the check maximum.
and disarm traps, the same is true for Nalia.
A true thief, both a multi or single class charname or someone like Jan, is much more of that and I suppose that someone that is willing to play a thief charname is willing to use the thieving skills to all their extent, not just to deal with traps and doors.
Jan is a very interesting thief to play as he has his exclusive equipment, gnome bonuses and is also a specialist mage, what charname will have instead?
Fighter levels so more APR and better Thac0 and HP, will be a slightly under levelled fighter, with UAI when he gets HLA (use of scrolls, wands and some items like the pally only 2H sword or the SotM) that can stab more reliably enemies with good AC having the Fighter's Thac0. Combine the use of a mislead scroll, double haste, regular with the boots and improved, for double apr and very fast movement and he can stab multiple enemies in the same round.
They both will be really good thieves that will use their other class to boost it (Jan misses on apr and Thac0, but will use the SotM before HLA and does not have to waste scrolls, he can cast mislead or the cheap lev 2 invisibility from his spells without wasting scrolls or waiting for HLA) and will cover 2 different roles in the party being a Fighter (that after the stabs has to run away from the enemy sight to change armour or fight behind a tank with the leather one) or a specialist secondary mage.
As @jmerry tells you can play every class as long as you enjoy it, if using a thief brings you fun and you like that charname is doing the thief tasks go with the multi and you will have fun and be reasonably powerful, if for your play style the thief is only a doors and containers opener pick some other multi, you will find someone that can do the task for you in all the saga.
I'd also rate stealth as nonessential; you need it if that thief is going to backstab a lot, and it's useful to have in general for stuff like scouting (if you see the enemy before they see you, that means you get to make a plan for that encounter), but none of that is stuff you're forced to interact with. I've run a BG2EE party that had basically no stealth capability at all; the only character that even had the theoretical option was Nalia, and she has zero points invested in the stealth skills.
The main question if you're looking for synergies is not whether mage/thief works well but whether fighter/mage/thief would work even better, since fighter has strong synergies with both the mage class and the thief class. That's a judgment call and you won't go wrong either way, but it is something worth considering when starting your run. Good luck!
Imoen: Pairs well with a T/M or F/M/T, who will be relatively free to venture into the more "elective" Thieving skills of Pick Pockets, Set Traps, and Detect Illusions.
Nalia: Pairs well with a T/M (or a very skilled F/M/T), who will be strongly encouraged to focus on the "required" skills of Disarm Traps, Open Locks, and Stealth right from the very beginning.
Jan: Pairs well with a Thief->Mage, who got to 100% in 2 or more of the "elective" Thief skills before Dual-classing, leaving Jan to focus on everything else.
OP specifically mentioned that this would be his first playthrough of the game. Just because you, a highly experienced player, beat the game without Stealth (once) does not mean that a newbie would have any fun at all trying to replicate your success. Heck, somebody once allegedly beat BG2 with a Solo Beastmaster, but that still doesn't mean that the Beastmaster is a viable kit for anyone who isn't a glutton for punishment.
And I'll disagree that high Stealth is nonessential: Sure, if all you're doing is exploring & checking out enemies who do nothing but stand there, then yeah, you should have all the time in the world to just duck behind a corner and hit that button again & again until you succeed. But if the enemies are scripted to wander and could stumble upon your hiding spot? If you want to engage in fun stuff like hit & run tactics (whether Backstabbing, ranged, or spell)? If you get caught stealing and need to hide from the law? If the enemy senses your presence and decides to pop any of the various appropriate Divination spells? You need that Stealth button to work right on the first try.
This is a very fair point. For the original poster, I think the build is a great idea for a first time run. One great thing about it is that you will slowly learn and fiddle with two of the fun systems in the game in arcane spells and thief abilities. It's actually a super great character to be able to fiddle with the game world and rule system. You'll be a pro at the game if you play all the way through.
And it's a great protagonist to be able to experiment with various companions and party compositions, since you're covering two essential roles with one character. It's one of the best builds I think to give yourself a wide set of options throughout the saga.
I don't see any difference that matters in using one or the other to deal with doors and traps, the real reason why i prefer Nalia is
What are the most essential Thief skills is really a personal taste, for me stealth and stabbing are really important, also setting traps, and I never use traps on known spawning points or still blue enemies, detecting illusions is useful, but less important and about pickpocketing I use the custom rule to never stack more then 1 thieving potions of each kind, but if you do it every thief in the game is potentially the best one at stealing.
I would prefer to have my cleric detect traps with his spells and to bash locks with the high STR from a belt + DuhM or use the arcane spell if it does not work and to tank the traps with a Mage with mirror images and other arcane protections or a high hp guy then to play without stealth, stabs and traps, for me those are the most essential Thief skills, but everyone has his style and that is fair.
It is indeed non essential, almost everything in the game is so as the game had been soloed by almost any class. You can run a party without hiding in shadows a single time and still be very effective.
This does not mean that stealth can not be really useful. I refuse to use meta game knowledge, I don't buff in advance if I can not detect the enemy with stealth, and the OP that is at his first run maybe lacks of that meta knowledge.
My reconnaissance work let me also to set trap carpets then lure the enemies into them and my thief often is a good way to neutralize the enemy mages spotting them, appearing at the edge of their field of view, then he steps back and hides in shadows so their short lasting protective spells are wasted as well as the one that he is casting targeting the thief. then he repeats the trick many times, each one firing an arrow so he wastes also his stone skins and the other offensive spells. In the modded games that I play (Tactics) the enemy Mage's helpers start chasing the hasted Thief that uses a couple of corners of the dungeons to stab them multiple times each time running away and hiding past the next corner in the split second he is out of their sight. Then killing the mage with no more helpers and no more offensive or defensive spells is an easy task, only 1 or 2 haste spells are needed for the full process until you get some speed boots, then it is a 0 spell consuming thing.
Stealth can be utterly powerful if properly used, not essential, but really useful.
Again to each one his own style, this game is great as it does not force a particular way to play upon you.
On a first play through stealth is also a good way to have fun, the player can spoil himself reading other people's play through killing all the surprise to play for the first time a big adventure or can use his Thief to scout and find himself what is behind every corner of every dungeon. It is something you can do only once in the life as we can pretend on further runs that Charname does not know, but from the second time on we know, there is no more surprise.
I still remember my first run more then 20 years ago, the relief when I finally found a way out of the starting dungeon to reach the sun light and fresh air, I still remember the surprise when I discovered that