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How would you do an evil party?

Want to play as evil as possible and as small party as possible.
Which npcs and charname would you suggest?

I will play as evil as possible even if I get less experience

Comments

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    I've already done my evil run, and reported it in the playthroughs forum. Dorn as protagonist, and fill out the party with standard companions. For BG2EE, since there are only four other evil companions, I had to add one neutral companion, and I chose Anomen. Because he can be corrupted.

    The evil party doesn't really lend itself to minimizing size, as the standard evil companions are all single classes in BG2EE. They're very good in their specialties, but they aren't as good at role-switching as the multiclass and dual-class characters that a good/neutral party picks up. Which means you wand to build the classic balanced party; a mage (Edwin), a thief (Hexxat), a cleric (Viconia), a warrior or two (Dorn, Korgan), and by then you have all the roles covered so the protagonist can be anything.
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    Which Npcs and Charname would you take in a four man party?
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Korgan can tank with the best of them so he's essential. Hexxat is the only evil thief so you're stuck with her unless Charname is a thiefy type. Then probably Edwin if you're not playing a mage, or Dorn of you are. You could try with Viconia as the tank and leave out Korgan, but only if you're willing to cast a lot of buffing spells.
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    edited September 2023
    What would you suggest as CHARNAME if I take Edwin, Viconia and eighter Dorn or Korgan?
    I also want to have a romance, which is the most interresting?

    Is Korgan or Dorn more powerful?

    What do you think about a blade CHARNAME?
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    I would never play an evil party but...
    Jan (neutral, but a good thief and a mage), Korgan ( best damage dealer, his rage is useful in some situations). Then it depends on your style and you have to pick the Charname class accordingly, if you are more into arcane magic Edwin is a good mage with his increased slots number and then Charname must cover the divine department being a dual or multi FC. If you are more into physical damage dealing probably Dorn and then Charname can both be a MC (multi?) or a FC (probably dual, an Anomen clone with kit, why not 2 bersekers in the party, one using axe as ranged weapon the other using the hammer that only Dwarves can use, better stats and proficiency choices, does not need super high Fighter levels as has the divine buffs), it depends on if Jan alone is enough arcane power for you.
    If you like Viconia for romancing or RP reasons she covers the divine magic so Charname can be a multi or dual FM.

    IMHO with only 4 in the party the key is taking the neutral Jan as he can cover 2 roles, the Thief one as well as Hexxat as his special equipment and his magic balance well her immortality and more rogue levels.
    In all of those combos probably Dorn can replace Korgan, but I never played him as I always play good or neutral and the level of evilness of the EE introduced evil NPCs went too far for my taste, I had runs with Korgan or Viky in the party, but there is no place for the follower of a demon or a vampire in my squad.
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    What do you think about a F/M or blade charname?
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    edited September 2023
    please

    Do I need a high level cleric?
    Post edited by Sloty1984 on
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    What do you think about:
    Charname blade
    Korgan
    Viconia
    Edwin
    ???
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    That you don't have any way to deal with traps yet, except for setting them off in your face. And there are a lot of traps. Having a real thief makes a big difference.

    If you're going full evil, to the point that the law will be sending parties to kill you, then mixing in a neutral companion (like Jan, mentioned above) is very risky; they'll storm off permanently if you ever fall to reputation 1, taking anything they were carrying (except critical items) with them. You probably don't want that sort of careful reputation management in your run.

    So that means an evil thief. Hexxat.

    On the earlier question of Dorn versus Korgan ...

    Dorn, as a half-orc blackguard, is someone you can't exactly duplicate in normal character creation. He starts with 19 strength, hitting harder than any blackguard you could build. But at the same time, he has only 14 CON, which weakens his ability to tank. He's still a great endgame tank when he can stack Armor of Faith and Hardiness for massive physical resistance, but he's a bit lacking in that role earlier on.

    Korgan is someone you can duplicate almost exactly in normal character creation. And as a dwarf berserker with 19 CON, he's incredibly sturdy. Tons of hit points, the ability to ignore most status effects with his rage, and great saves to handle the rest. The only point that he has that you can't match is grand mastery in his chosen weapon at level 8, and a fighter you make will reach level 9 for grand mastery very quickly.

    Dorn brings some pretty substantial quests with him, including area's you'd never get the chance to visit otherwise. Korgan has one rather short quest taking place entirely within the familiar confines of Athkatla, which you can complete within the first few hours after picking him up.

    Who's better? Depends on what you're looking for.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    In BG2 where there are a lot of STR enhancing items I think that 19 STR is strong only for the first part of the game so if I would ever go with an evil party, thing that I am not seeing coming soon, I would prefer a Charname Blackguard with good Con to Dorn power wise, obviously you miss completely the Dorn's quest and the EE NPCs quests are good for new adventures, items and xp compared to the pre EE ones.

    Today I had a long lasting internet blackout so I post now an answer that I wrote before @jmerry 's one
    Sloty1984 wrote: »
    please

    Do I need a high level cleric?

    No, but you need someone that can cast divine magic if you want to have Chaotic Commands, healing spells and the rest, he does not need to be a high level cleric, he can also be a multi or a druid, but playing without divine magic is more difficult, doable as there are potions and healing items and you can counter mind effects with items, potions and ST, but is more challenging.
    Sloty1984 wrote: »
    What do you think about:
    Charname blade
    Korgan
    Viconia
    Edwin
    ???

    Blade is a good kit, specially if you cheat in the SoD item that makes the song linger 3 rounds and use the Tresset's Choice Tweaks component that makes the song AoE bigger then the one of the present EE that makes impossible to cover the whole party unless you pack them very close to each other.
    ??? should probably be Dorn as you need to have mlee fighters to make the Enhanced Song matter, but then you lack of a thief and you have to use metagame to tank the traps and waste spells to open the containers you can not bash, the Blade with the help of potions can still steal for the party and Edwin with the SotM can scout. Or can be Hexxat or Jan, in this party the vampire is ok as you have both Edwin and Charname for the arcane magic.

    Korgan is a very good dps dealer, but is not ideal as a tank, tanking should be the main task of the Blade that has the defensive spin and arcane protections, also the ones that make AC better matters when combined with the spin, a stoneskin will last him a long time. When he gets HLA the song gives him the same AC improvement of the spin while improving by 4 also Korgan's (and Dorn's) AC, with the Bard's hat he can still attack 2 rounds and skip the third to sing, the enhanced song makes also Viconia (simple haste, Sling of Everard, enchanted bullets and clerical attack buffs) do meaningful ranged damage with outstanding Thac0, she can do more then 60 damage/round that is helpful to the party, while she is safe and can still has time to cast in the round.

    I add now something after reading @jmerry 's post that even if I did never played an evil run in my life you must act in a really mean way to fall to reputation 1 like killing people in the streets for no reason and there are ways to manage the reputation like giving money to the temples. I am not completely sure about it as I never did it but having Jan in the party should be possible like is possible to have Korgan or Viconia in a good party without them leaving.
    About going without a thief a cleric has a spell to detect traps if you don't want to use metagame knowledge and a Mage with mirror images can tank most of them without taking any damage as a toon with a lot of HP can tank them at the cost of taking damage and most of the ones on the ground can be completely avoided once you know their position. The game has been soloed by many with not Thieves classes, to have a Thief is convenient (and traps and containers are also a source of xp), but is not impossible to go without him, for me the most annoying thing would have been loosing the stealing capability, but with a Bard in the party it is not a problem.
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    I use a mod for no traps and locks. I know it is cheating, but I played the early game so many times that I know where most of the traps are and I can live with the lost experience.
    Does Viconia romance halforcs?
    I dont want to play chaotic evil who kills people just for the bad reputation, I want to play some smart evil who sometimes even does good things for profit.
    How do I make Viconia most efficient?
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    Which weapons should my Blade use?
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    Sloty1984 wrote: »
    Which weapons should my Blade use?

    Whatever they feel like, that someone else hasn't taken already. You can't specialize in anything, after all, and in the long run you'll be proficient in lots of stuff. Only warriors focus on a single weapon type and need planning in advance.

    Well, OK, there is one natural focus on a Blade: dual-wielding. You'll almost certainly take at least two dots in two-weapon style, and use it most of the time.
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    How do I make Viconia most efficient?
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Dakkon's Zerth Blade is a nice Katana for a Blade. It gives +1 AC and adds a bonus arcane spell slot for levels 1-4. You can put it in the off-hand once you get Celestial Fury. For a second weapon, why not flails? Korgan or Dorn have no use for flails and Flail of Ages is wasted on Viconia...
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    edited September 2023
    What is a good four man party,what do you think about this:
    Korgan
    Blade CHARNAME
    Viconia
    Edwin

    Still the question how to make Viconia most efficient?
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    What do you think about:
    F/M/T
    Korgan or Dorn (who is better?)
    Viconia
    Edwin
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,597
    There are five evil NPC's in BG2. Dorn, Hexxat, Viconia, Korgan and Edwin.

    Frankly the best way to round that group out is a second arcane caster, perhaps a dual or multi. Gnome fighter/illusionist is probably the OP choice here, or a dualed berserker/mage. I also think a bard fits rather snugly into the party. One key to note is that Edwin lacks some crucial illusion/invisibility dispelling. Viconia can assist with that, as can Hexxat with investment in detect illusion. But the strongest counter to that is going to a protagonist mage with those spells.
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,597
    A second option to round out the five evil NPC's is a Shaman. It's not as strong as a second mage would be in the party, but does allow you to have access to druid spells. Can also aid with anti-illusion spells, but again, not as well as a mage or bard.

    I highly recommend a playthrough with all five of these NPC's as they have some cool scripted interactions. Often involving more than just two of them!
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,597
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Dakkon's Zerth Blade is a nice Katana for a Blade. It gives +1 AC and adds a bonus arcane spell slot for levels 1-4. You can put it in the off-hand once you get Celestial Fury. For a second weapon, why not flails? Korgan or Dorn have no use for flails and Flail of Ages is wasted on Viconia...

    I wouldn't say Dorn has no use for flails. In fact, flail is a perfectly smart second melee option to add to Dorn, if no one else is taking that weapon type. It will still likely be your secondary weapon, but flail+shield is a good third option for Dorn alongside two handers and a ranged weapon. It's a good weapon set up if you need to get a spell cast midcombat, some extra tankiness. And its a good anti-undead, anti-clay golem etc set up. So it can do multiple things for you. I think paladins do really well in the saga (regardless of good or bad) with a 2H + blunt weapon and shield + ranged option. Lots of tactical flexibility on a single character, with no tedium of midcombat inventory shuffling.
  • Sloty1984Sloty1984 Member Posts: 147
    How do I powergame Viconia?
    Which weapons should I give to her and which are her most important spells?
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    Sloty1984 wrote: »
    Which weapons should I give to her...
    Whatever's best at the time, and don't worry about planning in advance. In the long run, you'll take all the proficiencies anyway; a pure cleric literally earns more proficiency points than they can possibly ever use over the course of BG2EE.

    Viconia at level 8, when you first pick her up in BG2EE, has proficiency in hammers, maces, slings, and shield style. Which, for a cleric with relatively low strength like her, is exactly what I'd pick if I were building her myself. While flails and morningstars can be excellent, they have higher strength requirements; they're not worth going for until you have more reliable access to strength boosts.
    Sloty1984 wrote: »
    ...and which are her most important spells?
    This depends on what focus you're going for. Will she be up front bashing faces? Then she wants to focus on combat self-buffs and quick-casting spells. Will she stand back and cast spells in combat, with the occasional sling shot between spells? Then she wants to focus on attack spells like Command and Hold Person. Is she more of a support character, casting for the party's benefit before and after fights? Then she cares about buffs for the party and healing spells.

    But of course, as a cleric, she always knows all of her spells. Changing focus is as simple as memorizing a different set of spells for a new day.
  • LarkusLarkus Member Posts: 54
    Worth reposting this particularly evil classic (not by me, but by the SixOfSpades from the Ironworks Forums:
    http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7151
    SixOfSpade wrote:
    In BG2:SoA, my Evil party was Fenris Melkior (Neutral Evil Cleric/Mage), Korgan, Viconia, Edwin, and Montaron. (There are no Evil Thieves in BG2, so I made an exact copy of Montaron from BG1, and brought him into the game when we’d completed Xzar's quest and obtained Monty's body.) A few of the nastier things we enjoyed:

    * Left Tirdir in his shallow grave for over a month, with only a rotting corpse to eat
    * Gave the Rift Device Part to Gaal
    * The head Diseased One wouldn't talk to me while I held the unused Rift Device, so I got his attention by using it on him
    * Whiled away the idle time between quests by Backstabbing Good-aligned people that don't cost you Rep. for killing them (the Temple of Lathander was fun)
    * The Slaver Ship in the Slums is still running quite well. Why do I want to destroy a perfectly good operation? The best way is to take out their upper management (Guarded Compound) and fill the vacancy yourself.
    * I did free Hendak and the slaves, but only to get access to Bernard's better wares. Then I killed Hendak before he'd even killed Lehtinan, and Bernard still gives me the discount. Cool.
    * Sided with Bodhi, naturally. All the Thieves can be hurt with normal weapons, so our Arrows of Biting and Darts of Wounding inflicted a lot of pain on them before they died.
    * Killed Quallo's friend, then didn't even get Lilarcor
    * Betrayed Garren Windspear, then betrayed Firkraag, then killed Windspear
    * Drizzt and company were NOT prepared for Edwin casting Time Stop/Dragon's Breath
    * Summoned a Pit Fiend in a tavern here and there, just for the hell of it (wasn't as much fun as I’d been hoping for)
    * My Bag of Holding contains a lot of cool little keepsakes, including Wellyn's bear, Raissa's skin, those Dryads' acorns, Blackmist+4, and Inspector Aegisfield's body.
    * Killing the Elves in Suldenesselar doesn't hurt your Rep, but you only get 2000 EXP apiece.

    Me, Korgan, Montaron, Viconia, Edwin. That's only 5 members. What about that empty 6th slot, you say? Ahhhhh. The open slot was used to take in each of the Good and Neutral NPCs, and one by one, absolutely destroy their lives. (The first thing I did with each one was dress them in pink and yellow.) Read on....

    Mazzy: The manual says that if you get killed by a Shade, you become a Shade yourself. I tried that, but nothing special happened. I thought maybe they had to kill you by draining your STR, so I had her use a Cursed Scroll of Weakness. Still nothing. So I settled for having her die at the hands of Shadow Patrick and the Shade Lord.
    Valygar: Turned him in to Tolgerias, alive. Actual quote from Valygar when I handed him over:
    "No! Please! SOMEBODY HELP ME!" That just made me feel giggly all over.
    Keldorn: I have this great screenshot of Keldorn using his Detect Evil. Fenris Melkior- Evil. Viconia- Evil. Montaron- Evil. Edwin- Evil. Korgan- Evil. We're all glowing red. You'd think he would have suspected something was up. Sucker. Anyway, first we screwed up his family, and then—-get this—-we made him attack his fellow members of the Radiant Heart. This is tough to do, because as soon as any of them turn hostile to the party, Keldorn leaves, and turns on you. Also, you can't Charm him, because of his Inquisitor kit. So you're out of options.....unless you give him the Cursed Berserking Sword+3. He would have killed more than 3 of them if I'd remembered to have him drink an Oil of Speed, too.
    Minsc: Somewhere in the Temple Ruins, there is a Feebleminded squirrel. Somewhere......
    (Not much difference, when you really think about it, though.)
    Yoshimo: I decided the cruelest way to deal with Yoshimo was not to take him to Spellhold, so his geas would take effect. "It hurts, and then you die." Heh, heh. But before I booted him, I Dualed him and put all of his points into Darts.
    Jan: He's a magic-user. He's insane. You know, they have a place for people like that.....it's called Spellhold. So I let him rot in the Government District prison for a month, then took him for a little boat ride. When we got inside, first I erased every spell in his book, then locked him into one of the cells. Ah, sweet incarceration. He could hope for rescue....except that I killed everyone in the Asylum, and the only 2 ways to get in are to use the Wardstone, or get committed by Desharik. Desharik's dead (doubly so), and I....forgot....where I dropped the wardstone. Was it in the Underdark somewhere? Hmm.....
    Imoen: What a little sissy! Gets all whiny and blubbery about her soul being taken. Look at me, I'm still whoopin' ass, what's the matter with you? Loser. I abandoned her in the last of the Testing Rooms under Spellhold, the one with the Cloak of Reflection and the 4 Apparitions. If you leave before she can talk to you, she's stuck there forever. Not bad.
    Nalia: I couldn't decide whether to Disintegrate her or lock her in a small room with her aunt. I eventually chose Disintegrate, as it had more of a sense of finality.
    Jaheira: Got her cursed by Baron Ployer, shot her reputation with the Harpers all to hell, and then took her to the Planar Prison, where I sealed her into one of the cells. (Send her in, destroy the Orb, kick her out, done.)
    Anomen: I admit it—I messed up with Anomen. I'd planned to make him fail his test, then when he goes Chaotic Neutral take him to Spellhold and give him the same treatment I wound up giving Jan. But I made the mistake of sending Keldorn on his rampage at the Radiant Heart BEFORE Anomen got tested. I only realized what had happened when I was in the Copper Coronet and Anomen went hostile. Oops. I had to switch to my backup plan of Contagion/Insect Plague/Imprisonment. (Okay, so I hacked in a scroll of Imprisonment, so sue me.)
    Aerie: Ah, Aerie. Sweet, naive, innocent little Aerie. First we tied her to a chair and made her watch as we collectively drank three cases of Red Bull (damned Korgan won the drinking contest), and then we gave her the Rod of Terror and had her LITERALLY beat herself to death with an Ugly Stick. In front of Quayle, of course.
    Cernd: I found a loophole which enabled me to poison the Druid Grove AND keep Cernd in my party afterwards. Go me. Then we went to Athkatla and did Cernd's quest, but we didn't actually rescue his baby, we just left it there on the floor. Then it was back to Trademeet, were we locked Cernd back up in his very own cell, but only after giving him some nice new equipment: The Bracers of Binding, Ring of Clumsiness and Ring of Folly. Then we went back, got the kid, tossed him into the pool of blood in Bodhi's lair and left him to drown.
    Haer'Dalis: A little Flesh to Stone action never hurts (well, it doesn't hurt ME), especially when it's in the Demonic Plane you visit in the Planar Sphere.

    I took the Evil paths in the tests of Fear, Pride, and Selfish, and the Good path in the test of Wrath. For Greed, well, you make the call: I got the Tear that corresponds with the Good path, but I still got to kill the Genie and keep Blackrazor. Yay!

    Now I've just started ToB. Fenris Melkior is now Levels 17/15, with godly stats of 25/19/20/19/22/20. The 25 STR is from Crom Faeyr, of course, but all the rest are just me. And we haven't even done Watcher's Keep yet. 136 hitpoints, AC= -10 (with Mage spells), THAC0= -3. Forward, men (and my sweetie Viconia), to ravage the lands of Tethyr!

    Some more exploits from BG1:
    http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1898
    I did the standard Evil Party makeup of Kagain, Shar-Teel, Viconia, Montaron and Xzar. (Edwin sucks.) Did you know that if they hadn't messed up the Dual-classing rules in BG1, Shar-Teel could reach Grandmastery while still under the ToSC EXP cap?

    On the BG2 and ToB forums, I've seen threads comparing the most Evil things that people have done. Unleashing a Pit Fiend on a group of kids playing in the street is pretty Evil, but here's a few of mine that I thought were nasty:

    - Making Khalid & Jaheira kill each other....after I'd dressed them both in pink and used the gender-switching Girdle on each of them
    - Telling Duke Eltan to stuff it (his quest to have me investigate the Iron Throne) up his butt
    - Taking Duke Eltan's body and dumping it in the sewers (I tried taking it to Arkion, but he didn't care)
    - Bringing the Nymph to Ragefast, but only after I'd used a Cursed Scroll of Ugliness on her
    - Taking Ajantis, Kivan, and Minsc into my party just long enough to make them Fallen
    - Stopped by a few taverns just long enough to cast Cloudkill
    - Went on Brielbara's quest to get Yago's Book of Curses, but then I kinda....forgot where I put it. Did I leave it on Werewolf Island somewhere? Oh, I can never remember.....
    - Taking the Soultaker Dagger to Ulgoth's, politely handing it to the Cultists, and immeditely leaving
    - Used Algernon's Cloak to get big groups of Commoners all huddled together, to make a Fireball MUCH more satisfying
    - Outdid Neb: Killed thirty-NINE children, all of them with Drizzt's Frostbrand, and most of them by Backstab
    - Went house-to-house in BG city, Backstabbing Commoners in their sleep with the Dagger of Venom
    - Went to the Lighthouse map and talked to Ardouine, the woman who wants you to save her son from the Worgs. Shar-Teel convinced me that a real woman would do it herself, so one Charm later, Ardoine is my Tank against the Worgs. Kid got a front-row seat as he watched his mother torn apart by wolves (literally: They chunked her). And then I left without even killing the Worgs.
    chaos.gif

    I tried to keep my Reputation in the Disliked range (I wanted to get all the Evil dreams), but it sank into Despised when I killed Ulraunt and Tethtoril. Oh well, knowing I'd already killed them made having them visit me in prison that much more fun!

    My Neutral Evil Cleric/Mage now has stats of 6/19/19/19/21/19, without items. The Sword Coast is glad to see me go.....
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    jmerry wrote: »
    Sloty1984 wrote: »
    ...and which are her most important spells?
    This depends on what focus you're going for. Will she be up front bashing faces? Then she wants to focus on combat self-buffs and quick-casting spells. Will she stand back and cast spells in combat, with the occasional sling shot between spells? Then she wants to focus on attack spells like...
    IMHO even if she stand back, that is a wise choice as she has not the arcane defensive spells Aerie has or the HP pool of Anomen, the combat self buffs are still relevant. I don't see a single reason why the sling shot should be occasional, the casting time of most of the spells give her time to use the sling in the same round, often twice with a regular haste from a spell or potion and with the combat buffs, a good sling (Seeking or Everard) and enchanted buffs she will get very good thac0, well in the negative end game, and up to more then 25 dmg/hit on top of her caster duty.

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