Are Longsword and Longbow good choices for weapon proficiencies? Should I take flail too?
ZeroxSP7
Member Posts: 55
I for sure want to use a Longsword as that goes with my character concept. A knight in plate mail wielding a Longsword and shield. Strategically speaking, I think it would be smart to take a ranged weapon like a Longbow. And a blunt weapon like Flail.
So I’m thinking 2 points in Longsword, 1 in Longbow, and 1 in Flail. Is that good? Or is there something I should change? How do other weapon choices stack up against these?
For reference, this character is a Lawful Good Human Fighter.
So I’m thinking 2 points in Longsword, 1 in Longbow, and 1 in Flail. Is that good? Or is there something I should change? How do other weapon choices stack up against these?
For reference, this character is a Lawful Good Human Fighter.
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Longbows are excellent in BG1 as well; bows are fantastic in general, and you can aim for either the +1 composite longbow (buy in Beregost, +2 attack/+3 damage, requires at least 18 strength) or the +2 longbow (find in the bandit camp, +3 attack/+2 damage).
And the combination's so good they gave it to two different NPCs. Khalid starts with that same longsword specialization and longbow proficiency (though he took axe with his last proficiency dot). Coran starts with longsword specialization and longbow mastery (at fighter level 3).
Sadly, there's only one Varscona. Taking two longsword users in the party is not recommended. So if you go for this, I recommend not including Khalid or Coran in your party.
If you plan to continue to BG2, longswords continue to be very good in that game. Longbows don't; bows in general are sharply worse, and all of the best bows are shortbows.
As for the point in flails ... probably not worth it. Sure, skeletons are 50% resistant to slashing, but most of them have rather low HP totals so you can kill them easily with a sword anyway. Better to invest in getting your primary weapons to at least mastery (three dot) levels as soon as possible.
OR, specialize in Long Bow to be the archer. At 1st level you can also specialize in Long Sword or Flail as your emergency weapon when your front liners are overwhelmed. But then you will add pips to long bow until you reach 5.
Chosing based on specific weapons is a meta-gaming choice, don’t get wrong we’ve all done it. But if you do that I would say Long Sword is best for melee, or Short Bow for missile (because there are much better short bows available in BG2).
Hmm... I actually think for a full saga playthrough, starting with longbow and then transitioning over to a melee weapon, like longswords, is perfectly fine advice. Given the nature of combat in BG1 and the small margin for error for a protagonist on the frontlines, I think it's perfectly fine to start as an archer, and then transition to primarily melee for BG2 and ToB. If anything, that's a super power-game kind of build. As well I think this can make for a more interesting experience, as your character develops in an interesting way over the course of the story.
Despite what some folks on here say, I also don't think longbow is at all a bad choice in early BG2. There's two very nice options available early in the game and while your damage output isn't great, you can get a very low thaco by doing this. A helpful thing to have if you want to have interrupts or are fighting high AC enemies.
You might not want to go the full five pips for longbow, perhaps stopping at three or four. But nonetheless, I think you can make a strong build (i.e. not going to reload alot). Even at only two or three pips in longbow, your character will still dominate in BG1 combat. That's all Kivan or Coran get, and every veteran knows how well they do.
but I disagree about melee in BG1. I probably choose a front and center melee type for my main character 75% of the time. Lead from the front. And a warrior with good skills stays viable all the way through. Don’t get me wrong, you can build a good character either way. It just feels too meta to me, I like the idea of a character training for a particular role and place. I currently have an unkitted fighter going, that I expect to dual to cleric soon. But I put her front and center the whole game, and I never once reloaded because of her getting hurt (good armor class, good hit points, and good support). Neera is another story entirely…
This is why I think ranged, at least in early BG1, is a good recommendation for newer players. It tends to result in a less frustrating playthrough. Remember that protagonist death can instantly trigger the game over screen with no ability to scroll through the combat log. New players suffering an unlucky streak of dice rolls may not even know what killed them!
By BG2 you tend to have larger hit point pools and the instant death type spells or abilities require you to dig into the game a bit. So there, melee for a protagonist is less of an issue, because of the large hit point pools. As such, I think most first time players buy themselves a bit of reprieve by playing BG1 with their protagonist on the back lines. If Montaron or Khalid get killed in combat, you still might want to reload, but at least you'll have a better sense of what killed them and what you can do to prevent it in the future.
I think kiting and drawing out combat longer than need be would be more discouraging. I just hate to see new players getting an excessive fear of going toe to toe. I say go for it, in their face. No doubt things will go spectacularly wrong on occasion. But they'll learn their own lessons and learn what is needed to mix it up, and who to mix it up with!
With that said, however, there's a lot to be said for flexibility. No one ever said any given character has to be the Tank all the time, and in fact a character who con only do one thing can tend to get rather boring. So go ahead, build a warrior-type who specializes in both melee and ranged weapons, and experiment with how you play them. If your main Tank has taken a lot of damage, let somebody else step up & take point for the rest of the day. Go ahead & recruit Khalid, or Coran, or heck even both of them simultaneously--it doesn't even matter that there's only one Varscona, as there's nothing at all preventing you/them from sharing the weapon; just pass it around, to whoever's the Tank at the moment, and there are still enough other decent Longswords in the game to keep everybody happy at the same time. True, this "sharing" kind of setup requires more micromanagement, and is measurably sub-optimal, to designing a party's proficiencies around the best weapons in the game. But as that would require meta knowledge that new players wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) have yet, I for one say it's more fun to let your first game(s) be more organic, adding new weapons (and developing their respective proficiencies) as you literally discover them.
Except that you cannot reach 5 pips (Grandmastery) in BG1, unless you've got either Siege of Dragonspear or an EXP cap remover. (Well, technically you can, but you have to abuse a game mechanic and cripple your character's long-term development to do it.) So; since you can't realistically get to 5, and the benefits from reaching 4 are frankly pretty lackluster, you're looking at an effective maximum of 3 stars (Mastery) in any weapon. And you don't even need to go all the way to 3: 2 pips (Specialization) is all that Paladins, Rangers, and Multiclassed Fighters get, and nobody has ever said that they can't fight.
So go ahead. Build your Fighter with [Longsword **, Longbow *, Flail *]. Or [Longsword ***, Longbow ***]. Or [Longsword **, Longbow **, Flail **]. Or [Longsword **, Longbow ***, Flail *]. Build whatever kind of character you want--anything that makes sense is probably going to turn out fine.
One last note: Please DON'T LET US TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. This is your game, and what's more it sounds like it's your first game. No matter what, all future playthroughs are going to be colored by your meta knowledge from this one: This is your ONLY chance to experience the game when it can still surprise you. I urge you not to waste this one opportunity. Your opinion may differ, of course; you might actually want to be given spoilers, and read walkthroughs, and whatnot--and that's perfectly all right, play in whatever way suits you. I just want to emphasize that this may be your only chance to actually beat the game for yourself, instead of having half of the internet holding your hand through Easy mode.
Secondly, one of your big enemies in BG1 is your high thaco. The best thing you can do for consistent increased damage is to drop your thacos. Bows are not only good because of their enchantment level, but because you can further lower your thaco with ammunition. As well as the extra attack per round. This becomes less of an issue the further you progress in the saga, but it's a big leg up for your character in the first half of BG1. On top of that, the bow also offers some later game utility (and immense power) with certain kinds of ammunition. That you simply won't get with a melee weapon. Moreover, there's two great longbows, so you're not even monopolizing a companion's ideal weapon.
I do agree, you should play however you want. And frankly, the game isn't all that difficult. You can beat this game with poorly distributed weapon proficiencies. But I'm just putting down advice that will allow players to avoid reloads, move through the game at a steady, rewarding pace, while avoiding cheesing the game systems.
One neat trick if you go with axes: while most nonmagical weapons have a chance of breaking when used in melee (as part of the game's plot), throwing axes don't. Your stack will only be depleted if you actually throw them.
On top of that, you can buy some magic throwing axes in Beregost, and they're extraordinarily cheap for magic weapons. It's a reasonable price if you're using them up by throwing them, but if you just buy a stack of five and only use them in melee... well, you're set for a long time.
One significant trade-off is that you will be a little less versatile as a fighter. I realize you strongly want to go for the longsword, and that is a good option, I'm just laying out here what you will be sacrificing. With the bow you can have access to diverse damage types -- fire, cold, poison, acid. You won't get that with axes in BG1. Secondly both your melee weapon choices will be slashing, meaning you will be hurt when encountering resistant or immune enemies. FWIW, there is anti-undead longsword in BG1, pretty easy to get, and this will help for many of the slashing resistant undead. But a fighter with say an axe proficiency and then a blunt weapon proficiency will be slightly more versatile than your current choice. I'm not saying you have to do this at all, merely noting what the possible strong/versatile fighter builds are. A fighter with say warhammer or flail to go along with axe will be a teensy bit stronger than than axe+longsword. But just a tiny bit. And again, you'll have a full party of six to work with, so you can build your companions in a way to help compensate for this.
Basically, even if you plan to invest in both axes and flails in the long run, you'd be much better off starting with two dots in one of those proficiencies than with one in each.
The corollary of this: don't be afraid to use a weapon you're not proficient at all in, if you're a fighter (or ranger, or paladin, or monk). If it's the best weapon for the situation, you'll still be able to hit things even at a -2 penalty. You'll use your specialized weapons most of the time, but if you just want to bash a skeleton (or, later, a clay golem) with a flail you can do that even without proficiency.
You can have up to six characters in your party. Different people to excel at different things, don’t think your PC needs to do it all themselves.
One is only for emergencies. Four is a waste if you ask me.
Generally, I pick two weapons that do different damage types in BG1 and in BG2 a third is added.
The advantage of fighter, five potential profiencies, is offset by not having as much versatility, in the long run. So if youre looking to maximize your character, you should settle on two weapon choices. With one being a blunt type. As I said above, choosing axes and also daggers can give you increased versatility above and beyond other weapons because of the throwing option. And don't be fooled by the humble dagger, it has great options in both games. Going with fighter, unless you're barbarian, you will have the most fun specializing, and choosing companions that complement you.
Ordinary werewolves and wolfweres require magical weapons to hit. No problem there. The lycanthrope bosses require weapons with the special "silver" or "cold iron" flags - silver for the greater wolfwere Karoug on the ship, cold iron for the loup-garou at the end. The list, in BGEE:
- Albruin (bastard sword, from Dorn's quest): silver, but not cold iron.
- The Burning Earth (long sword, from Durlag's Tower): silver and cold iron.
- Kondar (bastard sword, from Aldeth Sashenstar in either chapter 4 or chapter 5): silver and cold iron.
- Sword of Balduran (bastard sword, from a chest after Karoug on the ship): silver and cold iron.
- Werebane (dagger, from a chest before Karoug on the ship): silver and cold iron.
Karoug specifically also has extremely high regeneration, and 50% elemental resistance. You have to hit him hard and fast, so getting as many of your party using these weapons as possible is a good idea. As is finding something to do for the rest of your party, like dealing damage with spells or wands.
No enemy in the entire standard BG1 campaign requires a higher enchantment level to hit. Even a bare +0 magic weapon like an ice arrow is enough to hit everything except the two lycanthrope bosses.
SoD does require higher enchantment levels in places; there are a few enemies that require +2 weapons, and the climactic boss requires +3 on higher difficulties.
Lesson learned. I don’t like to cheat like this, but I was desperate and figured those two points in Axe and Flail were a waste. It worked out well and continues to do so as I progress into SOD. I don’t plan to use EE Keeper again as I’m quite happy with my proficiency points.
For reference, my party was this.
Minsc. 2 in 2h swords. 2 in two handed style.
Jaheira. 2 in clubs. 2 in scimitars.
Khalid. 2 in longswords. 3 in longbows
Imoen. 1 in shortbow. 1 in crossbow
Dynaheir. 1 in sling. 1 in darts
If you are playing SoD, I would pick longswords over flails, and axes last.
Longswords are perfectly viable trough the whole saga. The longsword shines the brightest in BG1 and SoD - and especially in the last boss fight in SoD. Doing swords and boards is great, even if dualwielding flails may be better in parts of BG2 and ToB