please help me choose

Gelsomino

hi people

please help me choose one "stealth guy" from these:
stalker
fighter thief (multi)
assassin
shadowdancer

and one cleric from these:
priest of lathander
priest of tempus

party is full custom:
berserker
2x fighter thief (multi, non stealth)
skald
cleric
stealth guy

game is unmodded
difficulty: insane
default settings

how many powerful enemies are immune to backstabs? if many, then i will choose between stalker and fighter-thief, because they are better at direct combat. i want to pick one that will be more useful in toughest fights, i am not interested in making medium difficulty fights easier.

how many enemies do i fight simultaneously in toughest fights? if many, then "Chaos of Battle" seems better option. if few/one, then "Boon of Lathander".

jmerry

Immunity to backstabs: golems, beholders, dragons, some stuff you won't worry about like oozes, and a bunch of random stuff in ToB. Also, there are monsters that see through invisibility so it gets hard to set up a backstab on them - demons tend to have that ability.

Backstabs in general are still quite strong. And honestly, your multiclass fighter/thieves should invest in decent stealth immediately, so that backstabs are an option even if it's not something you do most of the time. Tactical flexibility is the key to a well-played fighter/thief.

There are big fights against single enemies, there are big fights against a main enemy and a few minions, there are big fights against an enemy party, and there are some true horde fights in ToB. It covers the full range.

On the overall feel ... are you coming from IWD? Because the BG series has a lot more focus on arcane magic; conventional BG2 wisdom has fighter/mage combinations as the strongest class, and parties with at least two mages capable of 9th level spells are standard. There are plenty of scrolls to supply as many arcanists as you want. A party with no level 9 arcane capability, like yours, is variant material.

Gelsomino

thank you jmerry

i have not played IWD. i started BG2 10+ times testing different combinations... discovered that i am too lazy for arcane magic, takes a lot of reading/thinking/micromanagement. i just want to buff my fighter party and rush

DinoDin

If you want the weak arcane as a challenge mode or a preference fine, but do recognize you're going to struggle in about 25% of the fights or so. There's just no good workaround in the combat system for defenses that require breach or a similar type spell to disarm. Even killing Raythic Gethras in the docks, super early in the game, will require some kind of cheese or grinding.

I think despite your feelings about arcane magic, that you're setting yourself up for a frustrating experience by eschewing it. I don't think you have to play a fighter/mage or thief/mage in a tedious, micromanaging way, with the lone exception of the fights I'm talking about. I'd strongly suggest consider using some spells that don't have friendly fire, or don't require as much micromanaging. Things like emotion:hopelessness, death spell (a great spell!), hold person, the charm spells, hold monster, slow, glitterdust

Trouveur

For low magic party, I would recommend an inquisitor for his powerful dispel magic, and a druid for insects plague.

Gelsomino

thank you DinoDin for advice

sklad will have these spells in spellbook:

Pierce Magic
Breach
Secret Word
Spell Thrust
Remove Magic
Dispel Magic

and will cast the rest directly from scrolls.

also, his Remove/Dispel Magic is powerful because he has high "caster level".

after "use any item" HLA my three fighter/thieves will also use scrolls.

Raythic Gethras and all casters that do not have passive immunity to normal weapons die easily with nonenchanted weapons or even bare fists.

i do use some offensive spells that don't have friendly fire AND have casting time of 3 or lower so that he quickly returns to singing bard song.

Gelsomino

Trouveur

cleric's caster level is higher than druid's and because of it his buffs are more dispel-proof.

unfortunately no slot is left for inquisitor.

in my experience in some cases enemies are so close to me that dispel magic removes my buffs also

if he had remove magic instead of dispel, i would surely exchange him with berserker.

DinoDin

Similar to you, I've found that trying to use a mage that relies on fireballs or web can actually be a bit tedious. Counterproductive sometimes. That's why I suggest the no friendly fire type spells I listed above, and that's obviously just a partial list. I started playing more this way when I started leaning more on Xan in some of my no-reload saga attempts. Xan is blocked from casting many of the friendly-fire type spells like web, fireball, cloudkill, that many players fall in love with on their first runs.

But no reload often means you're prioritizing reliability and versatility over mere raw power. I also tend to prefer limiting the cheese on runs, so off screen fireballs/webs are not used often. I've still found that relying on the spells I listed still results in a "nuker" type mage, it's just not as straightforward.

I dunno, I actually feel like rolling with mages with the spellbook I've listed results in a less micro intense battle. Death spell can clear out whole packs of beefy, high hit point monsters like trolls, which otherwise will require a much more tedious, one by one execution from your party. Not to mention that the gear distribution rewards a diverse party composition. Again, you're free to play however you want, but I just want to highlight that there's a way to use mages in a way that's not tedious.

And just to add, the reason I like at least a second arcane caster most of the time is simply to have more tactical versatility in every combat. As opposed to trying to metagame every encounter--it can be impossible to remember all the various encounter intricacies. And it's super important to have two pieces in my squad that can potentially cast that vital protection or illusion disabling spell. Otherwise you're waiting on spell timer of your one guy to reset, both bad for no reload and an unfun experience imo. More than most CRPG's, tactics in BG revolve around killing those dangerous foes as soon as possible.

Gelsomino

sorry DinoDin, actually i just noticed that i wrote my reply badly, not what i wanted to say. i just wanted to say that even though bard is not complete acrane caster, he still has breach and similar type spells. glitterdust and slow are my favourite spells and always use them. i 100% agree on what you wrote. i will consider all your advices.

DinoDin

Right on, I never interpreted it as disagreement. I was just motivated to add a few thing I think I hadn't said above.