Short sword assassin warning spolier on shadow figure dont know how to hide text

justreportingabug

Ok so i finally (accidently) killed the shadowy figure. I now have the shadow blade, the mirrior image short sword, and the bleeding short sword of strength theft? Couldnt hover over their names im on tablet. The shadow blade is +3 with a speed factor of 0. The bleeding short sword of strength theft causes minor bleed and theft of 2 strength non cumlative on proc with a speed factor of 1. Which to choose? The mirror image blade is the shadow blade with mirrior images on proc plus dispell illusion so its definatly at least my second blade. Which two is the best combo and which should be the main. I got one pip in short sword and one in duel wield. Im level 11. I have two attacks per round and im not sure if the speed is more valuable than the bleed and buff. I also have the crimson gem that adds attack speed. Im leaning towards speed since assassins main job is to backstab and the faster you can get that second attack off the more chance you have to kill before being hit back. I dont cheese with invisibility potions. i do have the sandthiefs ring but to keep it challanging i import the black pits on with only one charge for a one time emergancy. Im going to put this playthrough on hold until i get some feedback. Im interested to see if there are conflicting views .

Aerakar

For a thief THACO is king, so I would go with the 2 +3 weapons for sure. Of those the mirror image blade is the better of the two since it has additional effects whereas the shadow blade is only a +3 short sword in the vanilla game.

Do you play solo or with a party? I usually will dual wield if solo for the extra attack, but I usually do not in a party until SoA. I also ask because the TWF penalties are severe with only one pip. I usually mod my games to allow thieves to receive up to 3 pips, but in vanilla I usually focus instead on SWS for the increased crit chance with one blade. Or I play an assassin with a quarterstaff with THS for additional damage.

But of course if you want to dual wield you should! It is a fun style and if you backstab mainly then the +4 from attacking in stealth, this will offset somewhat the penalties with only one pip pf TWF.

justreportingabug

Hehe your gonna have to add sws and ths to the jargon buster thread. I figured them out after i knew thw but it took me a round or two. Very insiteful. I have a different game with a staff thief so yeh just some flavor plus different animations. Ok so i got it right but for the wrong reason. The speed isnt as important as the thac0 ill keep that in mind. Im a six man party so the strength buff is useless on premeditated encounters since the encounter is over faster. It might be shrewd to walk around with the strength buff one since my hide ability and inviz is gimped and random encounters will last longer. Or is that thac0 even more important since i wont have the bonuses from attacking while hidden? I supose it also depends where you are isnt thac0 and ac less important nearer to the end cause everything hits or is it only ac that doesnt matter cause just the enemy only hit? My brain is munching on pieces of other discussions ive skimmed over.

Aerakar

After playing the game so long the jargon is a hard habit to break!

Weapon speed IS important, especially for backstabbers and characters with low attacks per round, but much less so for fighter types with high numbers of attacks. But for backstabbing single class thieves like assassins THAC0 is most important as hitting is the challenge!

The damage from backstab is usually enough to one shot many enemies in the first games. In other combat situation I tend to play my thieves as archers. They do not have low armor class, so after the backstab I may finish off an enemy with sword(s) or retreat to ranged and become an archer or try to re-hide around a corner.

From your original post my assumption is you are playing an assassin. The poison weapon ability really shines with arrows or darts due to the increased attacks per round. I usually save poison for ranged attacks where my attacks per round is higher. But with dual wielding you do have 2 attacks which doubles your chances.

justreportingabug

Poison weapon applies to both weapons. I never considered that. When i was young i was too inept to backstab and didnt even know it was a thing until recently. so now im really putting in effort to figure it out. Ive spent a decade designating my thief to archer. It is effective but ive over done it. Since i have your attention. Ive been trying to make thief or thief kit viable with the boots of phasing. My best build is assassin dueled to mage using staff of ram switching to staff of magi when life gets low. Or mage1>thief with same weapons. I considered shadowdancer but i think the boots have unlimited range so shadow stepping far Away wouldnt work. You can hide in plain sight when you are high level though. If only enventar's gift effected phasing. Is there something im missing besides sandthiefs ring and potions? Casting sanctuary, invisibiity, or remove curse has too long of a casting time. Too bad there isnt a wand with those spells. Perhaps a shadowdancer>mage but would the his and ms be high enough in the daytime? Edit the shadowdancer shadowstepping would work in a solo run i think since phasing is range of sight.

Aerakar

That is interesting on the boots. I have never used them so cannot comment. As I recall they teleport you randomly around the battlefield like the spell teleport field. I would think Shadowdancer could take advantage of that given hide in plain site.

On missing something, do you mean invisibility items? I think you listed them all: potions, rings (in BG2 also the air control ring, and the staff of the magi after use any item in SoA/ToB.

If I am playing a thief like an assassin or shadowdancer, I am maxing out stealth and re-hiding all the time. I only use the invisibility items as back-up in case I cannot hide to save me, or to do a power kill in a very tough combat mid-combat. I am liberal with poison use too.

justreportingabug

Im so behind ive only ever used hla's on casters. I assume thats what you mean by power kill, like assassinate? Ive never used it yet. Baby steps hehe. Ill check out the air control ring. Like the fire control ring i thought they only charmed elementals. Ive got some speed learning to do but i think the boots are going to be not just viable but a lot of fun. I used to chuck them on only fighters before and now it adds some flavor from a completly different class. I think the only way to get them now is by black pits import. Some dude wears them in the trilogy somewhere but i think you cant pick pocket them anymore. Im grasping at vague memory here though. Im happy it will work now at lower level (not as well as when the staff is usable or hla lvl) but the second invis ring changes things a bit.

Aerakar

The ring gives you improved invisibility, so actually better for a combat as then spellcasters can't target you after your attack. That ring is also once per day and you buy it at Ribald's shop. For an assassin or shadowdancer I would also go for the Mercykiller ring as it gives +20% to hide in shadows, +20% to move silently, and 20% to set traps.

By power kill I meant backstab, but the key thief HLAs are Spike Trap, Use any Item (scrolls and wands mainly), and Assassinate, and maybe Time Trap. You get a lot of HLAs as a thief, but Spike Traps are ridiculously powerful.

justreportingabug

Oh just for posterity, the boots of phasing are NOT unlimited range. I havnt done in depth testing but if you are far enough away then you dont phase. So your shadow dancer CAN bolt with shadowstep and not get yoyo'd back into combat if they book it far enough away. This is very signifgant. Ive only done it when the players have scripts off so i dont know if it is a distance thing or an engagment thing as in if someone is attacking you phase but you dont indefinatly phase just by someone not wearing them spotting an enemy. Edit its a distance thing not an attack thing. If you are a bit more than out of the range of sight you can sit out the fight or duck out and heal then phase back in when you are just out of line of sight. So cool!

justreportingabug

I avoid spike trap and skull trap uness im at a dying reload loop. Definatly super powerful. I think there should be a failure chance added to wands and scrolls, sort of like yeah you can use it but your not an expert. Its like a free mini duel class. All though yes there are limitations on quick slots, avalibility, and they dont level scale do they? Of course you can pause and equip any spell especially if you got s scroll case.ah yea the mercy killer ring, since you can pause and swap the inviz rings once you burn one.