Skip to content

Shadowdancer>cleric thief>cleric

Can you backstab with blades if you duel to cleric after you get use any item?

Comments

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    You can backstab with any weapon normally usable by a single-class thief. Yes to a longsword, no to a bastard sword.
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 635
    Yes, but I am not sure what class combination you're going for here.

    Unless you are using a save editor or other cheats, you can not be a shadow dancer/cleric multiclass, and you can not gain HLA with shadowdancer if you dual class before 3m xp, and you can not dual class into shadowdancer kit from cleric.

    The only legitimate way of doing this is playing shadowdancer to 3m xp, get the UAI HLA and then dual to cleric.. very near the end of the game you'll get your shadowdancer class back.

    With UAI you can do what you're asking about.

    Rolling Charname as a singleclass shadowdancer, then using save editor to multiclass thief/cleric and keeping the shadowdancer kit seems the most viable way of doing this.
  • justreportingabugjustreportingabug Member Posts: 42
    Ok i want to know. If i put pips in short sword, and get use any item hla. Then duelclass to cheric. Can i backstab with the short sword when i retain my thieving skills. Also if i put pips in short bow, will they be active with use any item after i duel class to cleric and retian my thief profile. So im a shadow dancer and am planning on putting pips in short sword long sword and short bow. I will duelclass to cleric right after i get use any item and perhaps shadow clone. So at level 15 or 16 i believe. It will be earlier if i can choose thief hlas if i can choose them instead of cleric hlas when i hit the apropriate levels in cleric. Is there a point to putting profincies in thief only weapons to backstab or does the cleric class restrict backstab to staves and clubs regardless of use any item? I know cleric/thief says staves and clubs only regardless of use any item. Is it the same or different for thief/shadowdancer > cleric?
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    Yes, it works.

    Is it good? No, not really. Because completing that dual takes so much XP that you're playing virtually the entire game as effectively a single-classed character, and for the latter part of SoA and most of ToB that's a severely underleveled character. Unless you run solo so all the kill XP goes to you, but one of the key advantages of thief solos is the ability to avoid fights entirely and you can't do that if you want the kill XP.
  • justreportingabugjustreportingabug Member Posts: 42
    edited May 8
    Im going dwarven defender sorcerer and shadowdancer>cleric then only a fourth man for npc quests then dump. Along with hefty resting to farm some ambushes plus running back and fourth along the map it doesnt take all that long to get the first class back up and running. I was curious as to the hla thing getting thief hlas when the cleric levels up because id consider porting in the boots of phasing, cloak or ring on non detection, water elemental ring, improved cloak of protection, using the staff of magi, and duel classing after the second shadow step skill. Do you need to get the shadow dancer to level 15 or just a class to level 15 to access their hlas?
  • justreportingabugjustreportingabug Member Posts: 42
    I could also solo the shadow dancer and import him to the beginning when i duel class them
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    A dual-class character gets HLAs when they level up with over 3 million XP in their current class. And those can only be the abilities associated with their current class. Unlike a multiclass character, which gets HLAs whenever they level up in either class at over 3 million total XP, and can take abilities associated with either class (subject to level minima on the spell HLAs). So yes, you get HLAs with that dual. You just get a lot fewer than you would with the multiclass, and most of those are the rather lackluster cleric spells.

    A shadowdancer needs to reach level 24 to get their first HLA; that's 3.08 million XP. It's a lot longer than you're thinking.
  • justreportingabugjustreportingabug Member Posts: 42
    Dang, i see what your throwin down. I see the merits on that suggestion to eekeep a shadowdancer/cleric from a single class shadowdancer. Can you edit the backstab restrictions in eekeeper? Like in the effects section? Hmm you know i could probably use near infinity and create copies of every weapon i will progress with and use. And just change the weapon type to club. It wouldnt be perfect, but if you COULD modify backstabbing restrictions i probably would have heard about it somewheres. If i could add backstabbing to a vanilla cleric as a status effect or something id go that route and just give a few shadowsteps as innate abilites and edit in a few shadow dancer hla's when the level is apropriate. Ive never really monkeyed around with the effects section of eekeeper its not very novice friendly being done in what hexadecimal or something? Im probably just asking too much and should just be happy with what can be done without too much effort. Thank you for everyones imput.
  • justreportingabugjustreportingabug Member Posts: 42
    I just read there is an add kit ability tool in eekeeper such as add berserk to a cleric. I i think with some fiddling i can add normal backstab capabilities to the shadowdancer/cleric kit and override the weapon restrictions =D
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    I just read there is an add kit ability tool in eekeeper such as add berserk to a cleric. I i think with some fiddling i can add normal backstab capabilities to the shadowdancer/cleric kit and override the weapon restrictions =D
    No. That doesn't work, as they're not part of the same system. The kit abilities that feature is about come from reading the kit's ability table (CLAB****.2DA). Backstab capability and weapon proficiency restrictions come from reading different tables, which EEKeeper doesn't touch. Weapon usability is a set of flags on all the individual weapons; all a kit has is a marker for which flag or flags to use. And "Hide in Plain Sight" is outright hardcoded to the kit ID; you can't touch it even with a full-on mod.
  • justreportingabugjustreportingabug Member Posts: 42
    I hear the term hardcoded and i get the drift but why exactly is hardcoded un editable? Is it a legal issue? I understand the override folder and how changing stuff in the baldur.ini works a bit by changing numbers around. Not sure how near infinity reads files to copy effects and i've made custom items and implamented them. I couldnt wrap my head around DLTCEP. How did the big world project work? That used to take a whole day and sometimes a second program called wendu or something to edit and install. What part of the game does eekeeper effect? Im guessing there is a seperate file for variables than there is for game mechanics. I have a grade 12 programming education that it.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    Hardcoded as in "you'd have to change the executable to change that". Normal modding works by editing the various resource files the game uses - all the stuff you can see in Near Infinity (~60000 files for unmodded BG2EE, though normally they're all packaged up in .bif archives). The Shadowdancer's "Hide in Plain Sight" ability is not in any of those files, or any combination of them.

    Normal EEKeeper usage just edits a save. The save consists of two files, each of which is a conglomerate of a bunch of game resources, but it'll still call on outside resources when you actually go into the game and do stuff; items only exist in the save as references with flag settings and charge numbers rather than full ITM files, for example. Each party member has a CRE file with a field for their kit, and abilities show up either as castable spells or effects in that CRE. Everything beyond that, like backstab multipliers and item restrictions - not in the save. That stuff comes in when you play the game, by referencing those outside resources.

    Mods - at least, the sophisticated ones - use WeiDU for their installation. It's a specialized programming language, so the modder writes code, the executable activates a command-line environment, and the installation process happens. Files get modified and put in the override, the unique "dialog.tlk" file with all the game's strings gets overwritten, and backups for everything are made so you can run WeiDU again to uninstall things quickly. And revert in general, because overwriting the file with all the game's text in it every time would be very dangerous otherwise.
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 635
    Roll singleclass Shadowdancer, EE Keeper to Multiclass Cleric/thief (set class lvl to 0 for cleric so you can get lvl 1 hp, add 1 xp and set thief class lvl to 1) and keep the Shadowdancer kit.

    This is exactly as stated above, and the only "cheat" you've applied is an illegitimate kit to multiclass and possibly illegitimate multiclass combo depending on race.. which in the greater scope of things is hardly a cheat at all and not uncommon for DM's to allow in tabletop with some house rules to let players explore other options.

    Unless you wanna solo most of SoA, or wait until the latter stages of ToB to get your 1st class back, this is the only viable option i see that has minimal amount of cheatyness (if that matters to you)

    There are far stronger legitimate choices regardless, so i doubt it'll unbalance the game.
  • justreportingabugjustreportingabug Member Posts: 42
    Thannk you, both of you. And this editied multiclass will be restricted to backstabbing with staves and clubs? Or does using shadowdancer as a class make it so i can use any thief item? Does shadowdancer take precident or does the multiclass cleric restrictions still apply? Pretty sure you gonna say cleric rstrictions still apply. Any way of tweaking that one thing? It stats multiclass cleric/thief do not get to backstab with blades even with use any ability. There is however nothing written about a cleric/shadowdancer. You said class abilities are hardcoded so im guessing im just going to have to be happy with most of what im looking for, which i am. Unless i make or find one of these sofisticated mods that so happens to eliminate the specific restriction. I dont own a comouter and have to go out of my way to use eekeeper or else i would just be testing this myself, pardon ;)
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,881
    Item usability restrictions only work one way. Some category of characters can't use the item, and if you fit any of the relevant categories you're out.

    So for a shadowdancer/cleric (whether multiclass or completed dual-class), you start with everything a cleric/thief can use, then look at the shadowdancer restrictions. Oh, that's nothing? OK, you can use anything that an unkitted cleric/thief can.

    And once you take the "Use Any Item" ability, virtually all usability restrictions go away. Class, kit, alignment - doesn't matter. Only ability score requirements (e.g. STR for heavy armor or INT for wands) and specific NPC items (e.g. Jan's gloves) still apply.
  • justreportingabugjustreportingabug Member Posts: 42
    The wiki page has pieces of restrictions and use any ability in different areas. I stopped reading figuring two of the paragraphs were the only information since the rest if the info isnt in the folowing third paragraph but further below. Ive re read the whole thing and along with your imput. i grasp it now. Thanks i would have shelved it and missed out. You have increased my killing power ;) and reminded me important concepts in cutting corners on research and reading.

    One more question....
    just kidding, thanks again!
Sign In or Register to comment.