Evil party main character class.

Swarmkeeper109

Hello friends, I'm going to start a new game soon, and decided to do an evil run since I never have before. I've already decided what party members to use, being: Edwin, Viconia, Kagain, Monty and Xzar. So based on that, I'm good on mages, fighters and sort of thieves. so that leaves a divine spell caster for the main character, I was thinking a fighter/druid mainly because I'm playing with SCS, and getting physical damage immunity in bg2 will be very powerful. But at the same time, druids have 3 spells that I care about (not including HLAs), which I don't think justifies choosing one. I'm also thinking about choosing a swashbuckler, especially with RR, I could focus on the utility thieving skills, and I can make Monty a backstabber. Thoughts?

Trouveur

I'm currently doing an evil run with Edwin, Viconia as a mutliclass mage / nightcloak of Shar from DoF mod, Kagain as a dwarven defender, Dorn and Montaron. My main char is a Dark Moon Monk (with the overhaul from Artisan's kitpack.
Beside a DMM, I would suggest a shaman, or a blade. A blackguard could also help on the frontline.

Swarmkeeper109

I'll look into the DMM overhaul. Thank you! I appreciate the response.

Swarmkeeper109

Trouveur wrote: »

I'm currently doing an evil run with Edwin, Viconia as a mutliclass mage / nightcloak of Shar from DoF mod, Kagain as a dwarven defender, Dorn and Montaron. My main char is a Dark Moon Monk (with the overhaul from Artisan's kitpack.
Beside a DMM, I would suggest a shaman, or a blade. A blackguard could also help on the frontline.

I'm going to go with the DMM overhaul. Thanks again!

Trouveur

You're welcome. 🙂
He's nice with some spellcasting.

Swarmkeeper109

Trouveur wrote: »

You're welcome. 🙂
He's nice with some spellcasting.

Yeah. I'm having a fun time so far!

FredN

.....Where are you starting from? I am currently running an all evil party, and have taken them from SoA to about 2/3 of the way through ToB. The problem is that in SoA you are initially stuck with a bunch of neutral and good characters as companions. Edwin, for example, is the best mage in the game, but we don't meet him until well into SoA. Before that I am saddled with dinks like Nalia and Aerie. Nalia is basically Imoen Lite ... she needs gear to function as a decent thief ... while Aerie is just a damned annoying whiner with low health, who dies a lot. Imoen herself can perform all the usual thief functions adequately, but as a dual classer, she will never get the all important Thief HLAs, like Use Any Item.
.....My end crew in ToB consists of my Main (half-orc Berserker), Viconia, Edwin, Hexxat (best thief in the game!), Dorn and Sarevok. OK, you can't actually recruit Sarevok as an ally until ToB, so before that I made do with Korgan instead. Could I have continued ToB with Korgan? Obviously the answer is yes. However, Korgan is all about axes and warhammers, while Sarevok is into Two handers. The most powerful weapons in the game fall into that category. I always give my MC specialty in Halberds so they can use Ravager +6 when it becomes available .... before that, in SoA, I grab Wave which is very useful vs fire critters. In ToB I give Sarevok the upgraded version of Gram and watch him go to town with it. He is also nasty with the Psion Blade. Oh, and in SoA Dorn has that long quest where he scores the Abyssal Blade; and in ToB he can upgrade to Ir'rev'rykal (aka the Unholy Reaver), which is basically the evil version of Carsomyr. Also note that, as a Blackguard, he is immune to level drain. He takes point when we are facing Undead, like in Saradush during the early parts of ToB.
.....While I do give Hexxat some decent one handed bladed weapons ... at night without her cloak, she has some impressive physical stats for melee combat ... but she is best used as an archer type, attacking from a distance. By the time we get to ToB she has the Gesen Bow. She is very useful in SoA in the campaign vs Bhodi and her vampires; as a vampire herself, she is immune to life drain. Also, she cannot be killed permanently, since no enemies carry wooden stakes. If killed, she pops back the next day (you can't use resurrection spells on her, so if she dies, just grab her stuff and give it back to her later). She does require some careful management; make sure she never goes outside in the daylight without her cloak. She also has some side quests which are a good source of experience for the party.
.....Dorn can use crossbows, and by the time we get to ToB he has Firetooth, which is the crossbow version of the Gesen Shortbow. Viconia suffers from having a low strength; she's too weak to wield The Flail of ages, for example. But that is easily solved by giving her any Girdle of Giant strength, or even Gauntlets of Ogre Power. She can give some useful information during the Underdark quest, although she is considered an outcast there since she is not a follower of Lloth. Edwin needs no explanation; he can pack the most spells of any mage in the game. His main drawback is that he cannot learn the identify spell, nor can he use identify scrolls. But that can be worked around by buying the glasses of identification, which can be used by your own MC regardless of class abilities.
..........................Spoiler alert.................
..........................Spoiler alert ...................
.......................... Spoiler alert ...........
.....Hexxat is suicidal at times and requires careful management at one point lest she walk outside without her cloak during daylight. She is also gay, so if your MC is female you can romance her, which helps a bit. But even so, keeping her around is a bit of a tightrope walk, needing precise dialogue responses. It's worth the effort, since she is the only pure thief npc in the game except for Yoshimo, and I think we all know what happens to him. Yes, Jan is also a thief, but he's multi-class, which means it takes him twice as long to finally get those precious Thief HLAs. He will never reach the levels which Hexxat can. Currently, 2/3 of the way through ToB she is level 32. She can now use any item, create scrolls, create potions, and use abilities like assassinate, evasion and greater evasion.

FredN

Oh, and Hexxat's traps are vicious, I use them to take out Fire Giants (set traps before the encounter, then send someone with boots of the cheetah ahead to lure them into the trapped areas). Fun times. I also (finally!) got the liquid mercury needed to upgrade Angurvidal to the +5 version. With this puppy, her (uncloaked) THACO is 1 and she can do 16-25 damage per hit. Note that she has a 5X damage modifier for a backstab, so using the Assasinate HLA her damage is quintupled on each hit. Cast Imrpoved Haste on her and she goes (briefly) into Vegematic mode.

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

Oh, and Hexxat's traps are vicious, I use them to take out Fire Giants (set traps before the encounter, then send someone with boots of the cheetah ahead to lure them into the trapped areas). Fun times. I also (finally!) got the liquid mercury needed to upgrade Angurvidal to the +5 version. With this puppy, her (uncloaked) THACO is 1 and she can do 16-25 damage per hit. Note that she has a 5X damage modifier for a backstab, so using the Assasinate HLA her damage is quintupled on each hit. Cast Imrpoved Haste on her and she goes (briefly) into Vegematic mode.

That sounds crazy! I remember the first time I beat Irenicus I set a spike trap in front of the tears of bhaal door, and before the fight even started he was already in the 'badly injured' state.

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

.....Where are you starting from? I am currently running an all evil party, and have taken them from SoA to about 2/3 of the way through ToB. The problem is that in SoA you are initially stuck with a bunch of neutral and good characters as companions. Edwin, for example, is the best mage in the game, but we don't meet him until well into SoA. Before that I am saddled with dinks like Nalia and Aerie. Nalia is basically Imoen Lite ... she needs gear to function as a decent thief ... while Aerie is just a damned annoying whiner with low health, who dies a lot. Imoen herself can perform all the usual thief functions adequately, but as a dual classer, she will never get the all important Thief HLAs, like Use Any Item.
.....My end crew in ToB consists of my Main (half-orc Berserker), Viconia, Edwin, Hexxat (best thief in the game!), Dorn and Sarevok. OK, you can't actually recruit Sarevok as an ally until ToB, so before that I made do with Korgan instead. Could I have continued ToB with Korgan? Obviously the answer is yes. However, Korgan is all about axes and warhammers, while Sarevok is into Two handers. The most powerful weapons in the game fall into that category. I always give my MC specialty in Halberds so they can use Ravager +6 when it becomes available .... before that, in SoA, I grab Wave which is very useful vs fire critters. In ToB I give Sarevok the upgraded version of Gram and watch him go to town with it. He is also nasty with the Psion Blade. Oh, and in SoA Dorn has that long quest where he scores the Abyssal Blade; and in ToB he can upgrade to Ir'rev'rykal (aka the Unholy Reaver), which is basically the evil version of Carsomyr. Also note that, as a Blackguard, he is immune to level drain. He takes point when we are facing Undead, like in Saradush during the early parts of ToB.
.....While I do give Hexxat some decent one handed bladed weapons ... at night without her cloak, she has some impressive physical stats for melee combat ... but she is best used as an archer type, attacking from a distance. By the time we get to ToB she has the Gesen Bow. She is very useful in SoA in the campaign vs Bhodi and her vampires; as a vampire herself, she is immune to life drain. Also, she cannot be killed permanently, since no enemies carry wooden stakes. If killed, she pops back the next day (you can't use resurrection spells on her, so if she dies, just grab her stuff and give it back to her later). She does require some careful management; make sure she never goes outside in the daylight without her cloak. She also has some side quests which are a good source of experience for the party.
.....Dorn can use crossbows, and by the time we get to ToB he has Firetooth, which is the crossbow version of the Gesen Shortbow. Viconia suffers from having a low strength; she's too weak to wield The Flail of ages, for example. But that is easily solved by giving her any Girdle of Giant strength, or even Gauntlets of Ogre Power. She can give some useful information during the Underdark quest, although she is considered an outcast there since she is not a follower of Lloth. Edwin needs no explanation; he can pack the most spells of any mage in the game. His main drawback is that he cannot learn the identify spell, nor can he use identify scrolls. But that can be worked around by buying the glasses of identification, which can be used by your own MC regardless of class abilities.
..........................Spoiler alert.................
..........................Spoiler alert ...................
.......................... Spoiler alert ...........
.....Hexxat is suicidal at times and requires careful management at one point lest she walk outside without her cloak during daylight. She is also gay, so if your MC is female you can romance her, which helps a bit. But even so, keeping her around is a bit of a tightrope walk, needing precise dialogue responses. It's worth the effort, since she is the only pure thief npc in the game except for Yoshimo, and I think we all know what happens to him. Yes, Jan is also a thief, but he's multi-class, which means it takes him twice as long to finally get those precious Thief HLAs. He will never reach the levels which Hexxat can. Currently, 2/3 of the way through ToB she is level 32. She can now use any item, create scrolls, create potions, and use abilities like assassinate, evasion and greater evasion.

woah that's a lot! Thanks for taking the time to write all of that. first of all I'm starting in bg1 and I'm planning on going all the way to ToB. Yeah, I have no clue why BioWare only made 3 evil party members for SoA At least the EE rectified that. Can't you do Mae'var's quest almost immediately? I like keeping Korgan in ToB, Because of Axe of the Unyielding +5. Two-handed swords are definitely powerful, however I don't feel like there are any good ones until the underdark (aside from Carsomyr) and my main problem with the Abyssal Blade and Ir'rev'rykal, is that 'extra damage vs good' is almost completely useless, since most enemies are evil. Though they could good swaps for the secondary effects. Being immune to level drain is definitely helpful. I probably should use Hexxat but having Edwin as my only mage feels like it's going to hurt, so I'm probably going to use Jan instead. I could dual class Sarevok, however, I wouldn't have secondary mage for the entirety of SoA. Hmmmm lot to think about there. Thanks again for writing this! Also sorry about how this is formatted, I'm still pretty new here and I'm not sure the proper way to do it.

FredN

.....I liked BG1, but it suffered from the fact that characters at level 1-4 or so have low health and die rather easily. Also, I am pretty sure that you cannot use Xzar and Monteron in SoA. They do appear there briefly, but only as non-recruitable and very short lived parts of Jaheria's Harper quest. Can you import characters who already exist in a scenario as non-recruitable? Never tried it, but it sounds unlikely. Also note that Jaheira, being neutral, can actually function in an otherwise evil party. Her Harper quest in SoA is massive and nets huge amounts of experience. Mind you, if you do too many exclusively evil things, she will start to complain about the Balance, so try to keep the party rep fairly decent.
.....Part of Dorn's quests in SoA involve doing particularly heinous things. I won't go into details, but lets just say that there are a lot of bodies hitting the floor, and none of them are evil beings. Considering that his Patron (and he has to choose between two of them) is literally a Hellspawn, this should not come as a total shock to you.
,,,,,And as far as Ir'rev'rykal goes ... it is quite powerful, but in ToB he still gets to keep the Abyssal Blade, so he can use whichever seems best. In fact, you don't get the second weapon until you get far into the lower depths of Watcher's Keep, so at the beginning of ToB the question doesn't even arise unless you actually try to assail the bowels of the Keep at relatively low levels. Not sure how feasible that is.

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

I liked BG1, but it suffered from the fact that characters at level 1-4 or so have low health and die rather easily. Also, I am pretty sure that you cannot use Xzar and Monteron in SoA. They do appear there briefly, but only as non-recruitable and very short lived parts of Jaheria's Harper quest. Can you import characters who already exist in a scenario as non-recruitable? Never tried it, but it sounds unlikely. Also note that Jaheira, being neutral, can actually function in an otherwise evil party. Her Harper quest in SoA is massive and nets huge amounts of experience. Mind you, if you do too many exclusively evil things, she will start to complain about the Balance, so try to keep the party rep fairly decent.

I agree with the first point, however its not really a problem for me since whenever I start a new game I head to the map east of the Beregost temple to kill the basilisks there, and then do a few side quests until I reach 32k XP so when party members join me they will automatically be around level 5. Yeah, you can't use Xzar or Monty in bg2 but I find them amusing and wanted to use them in bg1 (even though Xzar only has 28 HP at level 7 ). I I didn't think about using Jaheira! That works for me as I was planning on keeping my rep high (though not high enough for my party members leave). I honestly forgot Jaheira wasn't neutral good, as I'm pretty sure the last time I used her I had mod installed that made that change.

FredN

You changed Jaheira's alignment? Why on earth would you even do such a thing? As a true neutral, she can work alongside anyone.

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

You changed Jaheira's alignment? Why on earth would you even do such a thing? As a true neutral, she can work alongside anyone.

I'm pretty sure it was a tweaks anthology component, and because I wanted to get the install done with as quickly as possible I was just looking at the components without thinking too much about them. then when that one popped up, I went 'Jaheira acts pretty neutral good, sure'. But thinking about it more it definitely is more beneficial to keep her true neutral.

FredN

Well, it is true that her overall actions and demeanor do at first glance seem to favor the good. But as far as game mechanics go, she is amenable to anything as long as it doesn't upend her precious "balance" too much.

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

Well, it is true that her overall actions and demeanor do at first glance seem to favor the good. But as far as game mechanics go, she is amenable to anything as long as it doesn't upend her precious "balance" too much.

Yeah your right.

FredN

One last caveat. The "Dorn's Bloody Path" quest mission during the wedding ceremony is so exteme that evan Jaheira's neutral nature will not tolerate it. You should probably park her in an inn somewhere until the bloodshed is over. And of course, it goes without saying that you should NEVER under ANY circumstances put Dorn and either Keldorn or Anomen in the same party. This is pretty obvious, but maybe you wanted to do it just to see what happens. Don't even bother; let me just say that the totally expected carnage results. You may as well drop a lump of elemental Sodium into a bowl of water and hope that it doesn't explode. Good luck with that.

Trouveur

There is a mod adding Xzar and Montaron as joinable NPC in BG2.

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

One last caveat. The "Dorn's Bloody Path" quest mission during the wedding ceremony is so exteme that evan Jaheira's neutral nature will not tolerate it. You should probably park her in an inn somewhere until the bloodshed is over. And of course, it goes without saying that you should NEVER under ANY circumstances put Dorn and either Keldorn or Anomen in the same party. This is pretty obvious, but maybe you wanted to do it just to see what happens. Don't even bother; let me just say that the totally expected carnage results. You may as well drop a lump of elemental Sodium into a bowl of water and hope that it doesn't explode. Good luck with that.

I remember doing that quest once and hearing that like, EVERYBODY had problem with it so I decided it was just me and Dorn the first time so I could get more XP. Thanks for the warning!

Swarmkeeper109

Trouveur wrote: »

There is a mod adding Xzar and Montaron as joinable NPC in BG2.

That's cool! I'll check that out. Thanks!

FredN

>I remember doing that quest once and hearing that like, EVERYBODY had problem with it so I decided it was just me and Dorn the first time so I could get more XP<
Just pick your allies carefully. I seriously doubt that Korgan, Edwin, Viconia or Hexxat would have any problem with it. Heck, Korgan would probably have orgasms over the massacre of helpless innocents. That crew isn't exactly fastidious.

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

>I remember doing that quest once and hearing that like, EVERYBODY had problem with it so I decided it was just me and Dorn the first time so I could get more XP<
Just pick your allies carefully. I seriously doubt that Korgan, Edwin, Viconia or Hexxat would have any problem with it. Heck, Korgan would probably have orgasms over the massacre of helpless innocents. That crew isn't exactly fastidious.

This time I definitely will. Just last time I was playing a berserker 13 dual to thief, so I wanted as much xp as possible, and I had never done the EE quests before, so I wanted to try them out.

FredN

Dualing to thief is pretty weak, until you get the all important Use Any Item HLA. But, whatever floats your boat. In ToB, 50% of the time I dual Sarevok over to a mage. That's about as perverse as it gets, so I am not one to talk.

FredN

Also note that during the wedding feast massacre, some of the guests will scurry off into an isolated corner and hide. Scour the whole area carefully; you do NOT want to leave any eyewitnesses. The city guard is pretty inept, but to quote an old Monty Python skit ... "even they had to sit up and take notice". Kill them all and let the Gods sort them out should be your motto.

FredN

Also, do note that Sarevok is the only mage in the game who can pull off Tenser's Transformation convincingly. He ends up with a mind boggling amount of health. 320 HP or so, if I recall correctly. Give him a +3 staff or some other overpowered weapon, and stand back!

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

Dualing to thief is pretty weak, until you get the all important Use Any Item HLA. But, whatever floats your boat. In ToB, 50% of the time I dual Sarevok over to a mage. That's about as perverse as it gets, so I am not one to talk.

Dualing to mage is absolutely the better choice and I always dual Sarevok to mage, however I just wanted to do a 13 dual as I've played this game a ton and I had never done one before. I chose a thief for two reasons: 1 most fighters worth their salt have enough dexterity to dual, so I didn't have to worry about needing to get high enough roll, and 2 thieves level up the fastest so it wouldn't be too bad having to get my fighter levels back. I know with mages you can learn and forget spells over and over to get a ton of XP and I have done that a few times, its just that time around I didn't feel like doing that.

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

Also note that during the wedding feast massacre, some of the guests will scurry off into an isolated corner and hide. Scour the whole area carefully; you do NOT want to leave any eyewitnesses. The city guard is pretty inept, but to quote an old Monty Python skit ... "even they had to sit up and take notice". Kill them all and let the Gods sort them out should be your motto.

Will do, thanks for the warning again!

FredN

"Dualing to mage is absolutely the better choice "
This rather depends on what class I myself am playing. I did once do a run as a sorceror. With both myself and Edwin as spell slingers, I left Sarevok as a fighter. Three spell casters is waaaay too many. You need some hefty beef to stand in the front line and keep those mean weapon swingers off your fragile butt. Mind you, I didn't play that character through to the end. I think I made it to Abazigil. Cowering in the back and tossing the occasional spell at the enemy was a bit boring. Using Greater Whirlwind while wielding Ravager +6 was more to my liking. Enemies just melted away.

Swarmkeeper109

FredN wrote: »

"Dualing to mage is absolutely the better choice "
This rather depends on what class I myself am playing. I did once do a run as a sorceror. With both myself and Edwin as spell slingers, I left Sarevok as a fighter. Three spell casters is waaaay too many. You need some hefty beef to stand in the front line and keep those mean weapon swingers off your fragile butt. Mind you, I didn't play that character through to the end. I think I made it to Abazigil. Cowering in the back and tossing the occasional spell at the enemy was a bit boring. Using Greater Whirlwind while wielding Ravager +6 was more to my liking. Enemies just melted away.

I'm just saying in a vacuum, out of the fighter dual classing choices mage is the strongest one, but it does absolutely depend on the party composition. and I don't always dual Sarevok but I usually have Nalia/Imoen, or Aerie/Jan, or Edwin. Because Aerie/Jan are multiclasses they don't have as many spell slots as I'd like, so if I'm taking Sarevok that run I'd dual him to mage to make up for that, and with Edwin he has enough spell slots, but two horrid wilting are better then one. Same reasoning with Nalia/Imoen. And I don't like how there are like, three things to wear being the robe of Vecna, a robe of the archmagi, and aslyferund elven chain, but after that there's nothing. I still need to figure out what party members I'm going to use in bg2, but I'll probably keep Sarevok a fighter this run.

FredN

I just checked, and currently Edwin is wearing something called the Robe of Invocation. No clue where he got it from ... way back in SoA probably ... but it reduces the amount of damage he takes from magical elemental attacks like cold, fire, etc. Fairly useful considering his low health total. You also have stuff like robe of the Evil Archmage, the Robe of Vechna and some other doodad I can't recall offhand. Probably that elven chain thing you mentioned. If you need more than 4 mage garments, you have gone way overboard in the magic user department.

FredN

.....Oh crap; now you have gotten me wondering if I can do an all mage campaign. Alignments would be all over the place, but we'd have Edwin, Imoen, Nalyia, Jan and Neera. As the MC I'd probably pick a sorceror. We'd be total cannon fodder against melee opponents, so we would need to learn a crapton of summoning spells. Skeletal warriors are always a crowd pleaser. Warriors? Thieves? Bah, who needs them!
.....No! Must ... resist. Cannot give in ... hold steady Fred! You can do it! Just ... say ... no ... to mutant BG campaigns!