Bards are thieves? Huh!

FredN

.....Well, you learn something new all the time. I had decided to try investigating every profession, and play them up to the fight with Gromnir, just to see how the various professions work. The latest test project was a bard; I picked the Blade sub class because it looked cool. The only thing even vaguely thief like was the pick pocket ability, at a very low level of expertise. Also, as spell casters they are rather linited; can't learn spells over 6th level, and spell progression is fairly slow. Basically a cross between spell caster and weapon use; jack of all trades, master of none as it were. So, I wasn't that impressed at first.
.....Now, my bard is nowhere near 3,000,000 experience, but I was curious and looked up Bardic HLAs. Aside from Improved Bard song, all the Bard HLAs are thief abilties! OK, I think I have found my next character to take all the way. The first thief HLA I am gonna learn is Use Any Item; this is hugely OP and will vastly inprove my combat ability. For example, right now I can't wear a helmet, but with this skill I should be able to wear items like the Helm of Balduran.
.....After that, there's all kinds of good skills, like assasinate, for example. Throw in a belt of giant strength, offensive spin and a couple of +4 or +5 weapons ... thanks to level 1 of Watcher's Keep, I have Usuno's Blade and the +5 version of Foebane ... and it should be pretty effective.

jmerry

Assassinate? I don't think bards can take that one, and it wouldn't do them any good anyway. You don't have a backstab multiplier, after all.

For the rest of the list, yes, bards are rogues. There's at least one other bard-specific HLA, which creates a temporary item with a bunch of moderately useful charges.

FredN

.....Well, since my guy is nowhere near 300,000 experience, I can't answer that one way or another, but from the language used, if I can pick any thief HLA then assassinate should be one of them. You are correct, however, that it apparently wouldn't be terribly useful since my backstab modifier is zero. I seem to have misread the effect, thinking it would yield increased damage despite my lack of that ability. My bad. In that case, evasion and greater evasion might be better choices.
.....Since my Blade is a sort of mage thief combination, I was curious how this build would compare to a true Mage/Thief Multi-classed character. I created one such, and initially they were pretty comparable. In the long run, the Mage/thief should in theory be a tad bit superior, since there is no limitation on mage spells as far as level learned, ... I am never going to be able to cast Time Stop or Horrid Wilting, for example ... and he should also be able to learn both Mage and Thief HLAs. This is offset by the fact that a multi-class character has experience split between the two professions, and thus gains levels a lot more slowly. My Blade will be getting HLAs much faster. And, of course, I have Bardsong to buff up my party companions. Overall, I'd give a small edge to the Mage/Thief, but not overwhelmingly so.

FredN

Addendum: OK I hit 300,000 experience. Amusingly enough, I was NOT given the choice to learn assasinate. Apparently the game AI is savvy enough to realize that I have zero proficiency in backstabbing. What was rather interesting was the fact there were TWO musically related HLAs; in addition to an improvement to Bard Song, there was also something called Magic Flute. Cute.
.....I also had the opportunity to learn how to set vatious types of traps. Probably this would only work once a day, and my current real thief can set up to 5, so I opted to pass that one up. I was seriously tempted to get Improved Bard Song, but in the end I opted for the perennial crowd pleaser, Use Any Item. A better Bard Song will be next.

jmerry

The HLA traps ... you'll probably take a bunch of them eventually, because what else will you do with all those HLA points? Each instance is a 1/day ability, and some of them are very useful. You can take them repeatedly for multiple uses.

- Basic thief traps. Moderate missile damage to all enemies in an area, plus additional effects based on level. Depends on Set Traps skill, and it's the only one of these that does. Not an HLA, just here for comparison.
- Spike Trap. Massive magic damage (20d6, no save, no MR) to a single target.
- Exploding Trap. A 10d6 fireball (save for half, MR negates) that also pushes enemies away and briefly renders them helpless on a failed save (at -10).
- Time Trap. 10 seconds of Time Stop, in which the rogue that set it is free to act and nobody else is (unless they're immune).
- Magic Flute. Three charges of Delayed Blast Fireball, cast at your level so it'll be 15d6 damage (save for half, MR negates). Can't be taken more than once.

Basic thief traps are great, and a cluster of them can destroy entire encounters. Spike traps are great, and a cluster of them can destroy single powerful enemies up to and including the final bosses of Watcher's Keep and of the ToB campaign. Time Trap is pretty neat, if you've got something worth doing in those ten seconds. Don't bother with Exploding Trap.

FredN

Oh, I am quite aware of the usefulness of traps. I like to set them in an area and then have one of my men, preferably equipped with something like Boots of the Cheetah, go and provoke an enemy so that they chase him back to the trapped area. This is especially useful with foes like Fire Giants who are annoying to melee.