A Guide to Thieving Abilities - What values do you really need for each ability?

Thels

Doing another playthrough after not having played the game for several years, I got to the point where Imoen leveled up and I tried to remember how many points I should invest into some of her Thieving Abilities. I searched the web and didn't really find any concrete "You should invest X points into Thieving Ability Y" answers. I also found information from different sources that contradicted each other, as well as information that contradicted my own experience.

Getting a bit annoyed by the lack of proper and concrete information on a rather central mechanic in a game that is over a quarter century old, I decided to do a little digging and experimenting. Things escalated from there, and I ended up spending several days checking the ins and outs of each of the Thieving Abilities. I've used the information I gathered from online sources and my own experiments, packing them together into this guide.

This guide focuses on the seven Thieving Abilities, and how many points you need to invest into each ability to get what percentage chance of success. It does not discuss which Thieving Ability is better than which other Thieving Ability, or whether certain Thieving Abilities are even worth pursuing when there are spells that do roughly the same thing. That's entirely subjective and depending on playstyle. What this document aims to do is to inform you about what values you want to reach in the Thieving Abilities you care most about.

Please note: The information in this guide is gathered from and tested on vanilla (unmodded) installations of BGEE, SOD, BG2EE and IWDEE at version 2.6.6.0. There is no guarantee that this documentation is accurate for earlier versions of the EE games, the original (unenhanced) games, Tutu, BGT, EET, GemRB, IWD2, PST, PSTEE, modded games, or other Infinity Engine installations.

While I've spent several days searching for information and testing their accuracy in game, I cannot guarantee that this documentation is entirely free of mistakes or ommisions. If you spot any errors in this guide, please let me know. However, please don't assume something in this guide is incorrect, simply because you read something different elsewhere. As I said, there is a lot if misinformation regarding Thieving Abilities circulating out there.

Here are some of the more frequently posted claims that have been verified as incorrect during testing:

• Wrong: You never need more than 100 points in any Thieving Ability. Correct: Five of the seven Thieving Abilities benefit from values over 100.
• Wrong: You can reach 100% chance of success with Pick Pockets. Correct: You can only reach 99% chance of success when picking a creature's pockets, though you can reach 100% chance of success when stealing from a store.
• Wrong: The Enhanced Editions add a 5% (1 on a 1d20 die roll) chance of failure to Pick Pockets. Correct: There is no such thing.
• Wrong: The Pick Pockets value required to steal from a specific inventory slot is added to the target's Pick Pockets value. Correct: Picking pockets is a two step process. First, the game checks if the attempt is successful. If it is, the game then checks if your Pick Pockets value is high enough to access a specific inventory slot.
• Wrong: Detecting traps involves a 1d10-1 die roll, similar to opening locks and disarming traps. Correct: Detecting traps simply checks if your Find Traps value is high enough, without involving any dice rolls.
• Wrong: Hide In Shadows is more important than Move Silently, since the Hide In Shadows value is checked when entering Stealth. Correct: Move Silently and Hide In Shadows are equally important for both entering and remaining in Stealth.

Many thanks to Angel, @argent77 , @Bubb , @CamDawg and Lynx for taking the time to answer my questions on the G3 Discord server while I was trying to figure this all out. Especially Bubb's verification of some of these mechanics in the engine was particularly helpful.

Thels

BACKGROUND INFORMATION

The Pick Pockets, Open Locks and Find Traps Thieving Abilities compare their values against the difficulty value of the target creature, store, lock or trap. This guide focuses on the highest difficulty value present in each vanilla game. BG2EE has three difficulty values that are exceptionally high, so this guide will mention those separately, and will also provide appropriate values to aim for when ignoring those three outliers.

Please note that mods can provide their own difficulty values, so it's possible that Thieving Ability values that are adequate for the vanilla game are not adequate for a specific mod.

Here is a table with the highest difficulty value found in each of the games. These are the difficulty values that the rest of this documentation is based upon. How these values work will be explained further down. Please note that these are not recommended values for your Thieving Abilities! Those are mentioned further down.

  Highest Ingame Skill Difficulties   BGEE  SOD  BG2EE  IWDEE

        Creature Pick Pockets value    90    80   135    40
          Store Stealing difficulty    35    95   128    --

   Locked Container Lock difficulty    95    95    99    99
        Locked Door Lock difficulty    90    99    95^   70

Container Trap Detection difficulty    91    90    99    90
     Door Trap Detection difficulty    99    --    95     0
   Ground Trap Detection difficulty    99    90    95*   95

  Container Trap Removal difficulty    97    90   101    95
       Door Trap Removal difficulty    80    --    95     0
     Ground Trap Removal difficulty    99    90    99"   95

BG2EE Exceptions:
^ Inside Saradush' Prison is a door with a Lock difficulty of 150.
* Inside Kiser's Home is a ground trap with a Trap Detection difficulty of 120.
" Outside Sendai's Hideout is a ground trap wth a Trap Removal difficulty of 110.

The Move Silently, Hide In Shadows, Detect Illusion and Set Traps Thieving Abilities are checked on their own, without comparing them against any difficulty values. Because of this, you want the same value in each game, and mods won't alter these values unless they specifically alter the functionality of the Thieving Ability. Note that Move Silently and Hide In Shadows do scale with lighting, so this guide will provide values for darkness and bright daylight separately.

When you fail to open a lock, it triggers that lock's "PickLockFailed" script (if any). Likewise, when you fail to disarm a trap, it triggers that trap's "DisarmFailed" script (if any). However, in vanilla BGEE, SOD, BG2EE and IWDEE, not a single trap has a DisarmFailed script, but there are exactly seven locks that have a PickLockFailed script:

• In the Silvershield Estate in Baldur's Gate (part of the BGEE game), there are five locked containers. While these have a fairly high lock difficulty, any Thief with an adequate Open Locks value can open these. However, if Skie tries to open any of these and fails, the PickLockFailed script acts as if the attempt was successful, opening the chest and granting some experience for doing so.
• In the staging area of the Black Pits 2 (part of the BG2EE game), there is a locked door with a lock difficulty of 100, so all attempts to open it result in a failure. Attempting to open it triggers the PickLockFailed script, causing the Guard to attack you.
• In the Snowdrift Inn in Easthaven (IDWEE's Prologue area), there is a locked container that contains some gold pieces with a lock difficulty of 25 (you need an Open Locks value of 26 to open the container on the first try). Failing to open the lock executes Deactivate("EHINVDWF"). This is most likely an old leftover from cut content. Original IWD has a creature file called "EHINVDWF", but this file is incomplete and unused. IWDEE removed this creature file completely.

Outside of these specific instances, there is no effect when failing an attempt to open a lock or disarm a trap, and you can simply try again. Because of that, this guide provides the values needed to get a potential success, so you are guaranteed to succeed after a couple of tries. For those that prefer a guaranteed success on the first try, alternative values are listed later in this document.

Note that mods can introduce locks with a PickLockFailed script or traps with a DisarmFailed script, but those mods can provide their own lock and trap difficulties, so the alternative values listed later in this document may not be accurate for those mods.

Thels

THIEVING ABILITY MECHANICS

Pick Pockets - Stealing from Creatures:
To determine if a robber can pick a target's pockets, take the robber's Pick Pockets value and subtract the target's Pick Pockets value (if any). Then roll 1d100. If the die result is less than the calculation, the attempt is successful (see below). Otherwise, it is a failure and the target turns hostile.

• If the robber's Pick Pockets value is less than 2 above the target's Pick Pockets value, the attempt will always fail.
• If the target's Pick Pockets value is exactly 255, the attempt always counts as a failure, regardless of the robber's Pick Pockets value.
• A die result of 100 while picking someone's pockets always counts as a failure, enforcing a minimum 1% failure chance.
• Luck has no effect on Pick Pockets, and thus cannot negate the enforced 1% failure chance.

Note: The Pick Pockets value listed in each .cre file is that creature's base Pick Pockets value. For Bards and Thieves (including kits, Dual- and Multiclass combinations), this base value is modified by their race, kit, dexterity, equipment and other effects to calculate their actual Pick Pockets value. Creatures that are not a Bard or Thief use their base Pick Pockets value, without any modifications.

When a robber successfully picks a target's pockets, the game determines which item, if any, can be stolen. The robber's Pick Pockets value determines from which inventory slot items can be stolen. This is unaffected by the target's Pick Pockets value (if any).

• A Pick Pockets value of 10 is required to steal items from a personal item/backpack slot.
• A Pick Pockets value of 50 is required to steal items from a quick item or quiver slot (but see below).
• A Pick Pockets value of 60 is required to steal items from a ring slot.
• A Pick Pockets value of 80 is required to steal items from an amulet, belt, cloak or gauntlets slot.
• A Pick Pockets value of 95 is required to steal items from a quick weapon slot (but see below).
• Items in an armor, boots, helmet or shield/offhand slot cannot be stolen (even if the target wields a twohanded weapon).
• If the target is wielding a melee or thrown weapon, that weapon cannot be stolen.
• If the target is wielding a projectile weapon, items in the active quiver slot cannot be stolen. The projectile weapon can be stolen, but the quiver slot remains active, preventing the item inside from getting stolen.
• Fists and conjured items cannot be stolen. Other items can have a flag that prevents them from being stolen.

Note: This step only checks if the robber's Pick Pockets value is high enough, and does not involve any dice rolls. If there are no items available to steal, the game informs the player, but the attempt does not turn into a failure and the target does not turn hostile.

Pick Pockets - Stealing from Stores:
To determine if a robber can steal from a store, take the robber's Pick Pockets value and subtract the store's Stealing difficulty value. Then roll 1d100. If the die result is equal to or less than the calculation, the attempt is successful and the item is stolen. Otherwise, it is a failure and the store owner turns hostile.

• If the robber's Pick Pockets value is less than 1 above the store's Stealing difficulty value, the attempt will always fail.
• If the robber's Pick Pockets value is at least 100 above the store's Stealing difficulty value, the attempt will always succeed (unless the difficulty value is exactly 100).
• If the store's Stealing difficulty value is exactly 100, the attempt always counts as a failure, regardless of the robber's Pick Pockets value.
• Luck has no effect on Pick Pockets.

Open Locks:
To determine if a robber can open a lock, take the robber's Open Lock value, and add 1d10-1. If the result is more than the lock's difficulty value, the attempt is successful and the container or door is unlocked. Otherwise, it is a failure but the robber can try again.

• If the robber's Open Lock skill is 9 or more below the lock's difficulty value, the attempt will always fail.
• If the robber's Open Lock skill is at least 1 above the lock's difficulty value, the attempt will always succeed (unless the difficulty value is exactly 100).
• If the lock's difficulty value is exactly 100, the attempt always counts as a failure, regardless of the robber's Open Locks value.
• While Luck affects the 1d10-1 roll, it cannot cause the roll to exceed its natural limits. A Luck bonus makes it more likely that an Open Lock attempt succeeds, but only if it was already possible to succeed without a Luck bonus.

Find Traps - Detect Traps:
To determine if a scout can detect a trap, take the scout's Find Traps value. If it is equal to or more than the trap's Detection difficulty value, the attempt is successful and the trap is revealed. Otherwise, it is a failure.

• If the trap's Detection difficulty value is exactly 100, the attempt always counts as a failure, regardless of the scout's Find Traps value.
• Luck has not effect on Find Traps to detect traps.

Note: After activating Find Traps, the scout will detect traps once per round (6.67 seconds), at roughly half their vision range. These rounds are independent from the moment the Find Traps ability is activated. Once the ability is activated, it can take anywhere from 0 to 6.67 seconds before the scout will detect traps. The same applies when the scout moves. It can take up to 6.67 seconds before the scout will detect traps at their new location. Detecting traps does not involve any dice rolls. If the scout cannot find a trap within 6.67 seconds, they cannot find it at all.

Find Traps - Disarm Traps:
To determine if a scout can disarm a trap, take the scout's Find Traps value, and add 1d10-1. If the result is more than the trap's Removal difficulty value, the attempt is successful and the trap is removed. Otherwise, it is a failure but the scout can try again.

• If the scout's Find Traps skill is 9 or more below the trap's Removal difficulty value, the attempt will always fail.
• If the scout's Find Traps skill is at least 1 above the trap's Removal difficulty value, the attempt will always succeed (unless the difficulty value is exactly 100).
• If the trap's Removal difficulty value is exactly 100, the Disarm Traps attempt always counts as a failure, regardless of the scout's Find Traps value.
• While Luck affects the 1d10-1 roll, it cannot cause the roll to exceed its natural limits. A Luck bonus makes it more likely that a Disarm Trap attempt succeeds, but only if it was already possible to succeed without a Luck bonus.

Move Silently and Hide In Shadows:
To determine if a scout can enter or remain in Stealth, take the average of the scout's Move Silently and Hide In Shadows values, and divide this by a number between 1 and 2 based on the current lighting. Then roll 1d100-1. If the die result is less than the calculation, the attempt is successful and the scout enters or remains in Stealth. Otherwise, the attempt fails and the scout leaves Stealth.

• When the scout is in darkness, such as outdoors at nighttime, or indoors away from illumination, the lighting divider is 1. When the scout is in the open in bright daylight, the lighting divider is 2. When the scout is in other situations, such as being outdoors in a shadow during daytime, or indoors but close to illumination, the lighting divider is a fractional number in between 1 and 2, depending on the lighting.
• Effectively, every 2 points of combined value provides 1% chance of success in darkness, and every 4 points of combined value provides 1% chance of succes in bright daylight, both up to 99%. There is no rounding up. A combined value of 15 would provide 7% chance in darkness, and 3% chance is bright daylight.
• A die result of 100 always counts as a failure, enforcing a minimum 1% failure chance (unless the scout has a Luck bonus).
• Luck affects the 1d100 roll. A Luck bonus prevents a die result of 100, negating the enforced 1% failure chance.
• When the scout can see a hostile creature, an attempt to enter Stealth always counts as a failure, regardless of the scout's Move Silently and Hide In Shadows values, unless the scout has the Hide In Plain Sight ability. If the scout has already entered Stealth, this does not affect the scout's chance to remain in Stealth.
  Note: After entering Stealth, the scout will make another check once per 3 rounds (20 seconds), using the lighting divider that applies at that time. If the check succeeds, the scout remains in Stealth. Otherwise, the scout leaves Stealth. There is no benefit to favoring Move Silently over Hide In Shadows or vice versa, except for the purpose of a Potion of Power (see later in this guide). Only the combined value matters.

Detect Illusion:
To determine if a scout can dispel an illusion, roll 1d100-1. If the result is equal to or less than the scout's Detect Illusion value, the attempt is successful and the illusion is dispelled. Otherwise, it is a failure but the scout can try again.

• If the scout's Detect Illusion value is 99 or more, the attempt will always succeed.
• Luck has no effect on Detect Illusion.

Note: After activating Find Traps, the scout will attempt to dispel illusions once per round (6.67 seconds), at their full vision range. These rounds are independent from the moment the Find Traps ability is activated. Once the ability is activated, it can take anywhere from 0 to 6.67 seconds before the scout will attempt to dispel illusions. The same applies when the scout moves. It can take up to 6.67 seconds before the scout will attempt to dispel illusions at their new location.

Set Traps - Basic and Special Snares:
To determine if a trapper can set a basic or special snare, roll 1d100-1. If the result is less than the trapper's Set Traps value, the attempt is successful and the trap is created. Otherwise, it is a failure (see below).

• If the trapper's Set Traps value is 0, the attempt will always fail.
• If the trapper's Set Traps value is 100 or more, the attempt will always succeed.
• If the attempt to set a basic snare fails, roll a second 1d100. If the result is more than 75, the trapper suffers damage.
• Luck affects both rolls. A Luck bonus increases the chance that the trap is created, and if the attempt fails, it reduces the chance that the trapper suffers damage.
• The trapper consumes a daily use of the ability, regardless of the outcome being a success or a failure.
• When the trapper can see a hostile creature, attempting to set a basic or special snare will always fail. This will consume a daily use of the ability, but cannot cause the trapper to suffer damage from the failed attempt.

Note: Special snares are only available to the Bounty Hunter kit. A trapper never suffers damage on a failed attempt to set a special snare.

Set Traps - High-Level Ability Traps:
To determine if a trapper can set a High-Level Ability trap, check the trapper's Set Traps value.

• If the trapper's Set Traps value is 0, the attempt will always fail.
• If the trapper's Set Traps value is 1 or more, the attempt will always succeed.
• Luck has no effect on Set Traps to set High-Level Ability traps.
• The trapper consumes a daily use of the ability, regardless of the outcome being a success or a failure.
• When the trapper can see a hostile creature, attempting to set a High-Level Ability trap will always fail. This will consume a daily use of the ability.

Note: A trapper never suffers damage on a failed attempt to set a High-Level Ability trap (only possible with a Set Traps value of 0). Setting a High-Level Ability trap does trigger a 1d100-1 roll in the background, but after applying luck, the result is changed to 0.

Thels

RECOMMENDED VALUES

Pick Pockets - Recommended Values:

• To be able to steal from every possible inventory slot, you need a Pick Pockets value of 95.
• To be able to steal from creatures without a Pick Pockets value with 99% chance of success, you need a Pick Pockets value of 100.
• To be able to steal from every possible creature with 99% chance of success, you need a Pick Pockets value of 190 in BGEE, 180 in SOD, 235 in BG2EE, and 140 in IWDEE.
• To be able to steal from every possible store with 100% chance of success, you need a Pick Pockets value of 135 in BGEE, 195 in SOD, and 228 in BG2EE. IWDEE does not allow you to steal from stores.

Open Locks - Recommended Values:

• To be able to open every possible lock, you need an Open Locks value of 87 in BGEE, and 91 in SOD, BG2EE^ and IWDEE.
• ^Exception for BG2EE: You need an Open Locks value of 142 to unlock a door inside Saradush Prison.

Note: These values make it possible to open every possible lock, but do not guarantee that you succeed on the first try. You may have to try a couple of times on the toughest locks.

Find Traps - Recommended Values:

• To be able to detect and disarm every possible trap, you need a Find Traps value of 99 in BGEE and BG2EE*, 90 in SOD and 95 in IWDEE.
• *Exceptions for BG2EE: You need a Find Traps value of 120 to detect a trap inside Kiser's Home, and a Find Traps value of 102 to disarm a trap outside Sendai's Hideout.

Note: These values make it possible to disarm every possible trap, but do not guarantee that you succeed on the first try. You may have to try a couple of times on the toughest traps.

Move Silently and Hide In Shadows - Recommended Values:

• To be able to enter and remain in Stealth in darkness with 99% chance of success, you need a combined Move Silently and Hide In Shadows value of 198 (so 99 average).
• To be able to enter and remain in Stealth in bright daylight with 99% chance of success, you need a combined Move Silently and Hide In Shadows value of 396 (so 198 average).
• To be able to enter and remain in Stealth with 100% chance of success, you need to add a Luck bonus.

Note: There is no benefit to favoring Move Silently over Hide In Shadows or vice versa, except for the purpose of a Potion of Power (see later in this guide). However, since there is a cap of 250 on the Character Generation and Level Up screens, you will have to invest your points over both skills to reach the required combined scores for 99% chance of success to enter or remain in Stealth in bright daylight.

Detect Illusion - Recommended Values:

• To be able to dispel every possible illusion within the first 6.67 seconds, you need a Detect Illusion value of 99.

Set Traps - Recommended Values:

• To be able to set any basic or special snare with 100% chance of success, you need a Set Traps value of 100.
• To be able to set any High-Level Ability trap with 100% chance of success, you need a Set Traps value of 1.

Luck Bonuses:
The recommended values listed above assume that the Thief has a Luck modifier of 0. A reliable Luck bonus, such as Alora's Lucky Rabbit's Foot, affects some of these values. Note that Luck modifiers are limited to a die's natural values. When you roll 1d10, a Luck bonus cannot cause the result to exceed 10. A Luck bonus increases the chance of success, but only if there was a chance of success to begin with.

• Pick Pockets, Find Traps to detect traps, Detect Illusion, and Set Traps for placing High-Level Ability traps are unaffected by Luck modifiers.
• For Open Locks, the values listed above are the minimum values to have a chance of success. A Luck bonus does not reduce these values, and only makes it more likely that an attempt succeeds.
• For Find Traps to disarm traps, the values listed above are the minimum values to detect traps, which tends to be 6 to 8 points higher than the minimum values to disarm traps. A Luck bonus does not reduce these values, and only makes it more likely that an attempt succeeds.
• For Move Silently and Hide In Shadows, a Luck bonus increases the chance of success by 1% per point. A Luck bonus of 1 changes a 99% chance of success into a 100% chance of success. Every reliable point of Luck bonus beyond the first point reduces the amount of points you need to invest by 2 for darkness, and by 4 for bright daylight.
• For Set Traps to set basic and special snares, a Luck bonus increases the chance of success by 1% per point. Every reliable point of Luck bonus reduces the amount of points you need to invest by 1.

Luck Penalties:
The recommended values listed above assume that the Thief has a Luck modifier of 0. A Luck penalty, such as caused by Fatigue, affects some of these values. Note that Luck modifiers are limited to a die's natural values. When you roll 1d10, a Luck penalty cannot cause the result to drop below 1. A Luck penalty increases the chance of failure, but only if there was a chance of failure to begin with.

• Pick Pockets, Find Traps to detect traps, Detect Illusion, and Set Traps for placing High-Level Ability traps are unaffected by Luck modifiers.
• For Open Locks, the values listed above are the minimum values to have a chance of success. A Luck penalty would make it impossible to open the toughest locks at these values. If you cannot get rid of the Luck penalty, you must invest additional points equal to the Luck penalty, to a maximum of 9.
• For Find Traps to disarm traps, the values listed above are the minimum values to detect traps, which tends to be 6 to 8 points higher than the minimum values to disarm traps. A Luck penalty would reduce the chance to disarm the toughest traps at these values, but unless the Luck penalty is larger than 8 in BGEE, SOD or IWDEE or larger than 6 in BG2EE, it would not make it impossible. If the Luck penalty is larger than 8 in BGEE, SOD or IWDEE, and you cannot reduce the Luck penalty, you must invest 1 additional point. If the Luck penalty is larger than 6 in BG2EE, and you cannot reduce the Luck penalty, you must invest 1 additional point for a Luck penalty of 7, 2 additional points for a Luck penalty of 8, or 3 additional points for a Luck penalty of 9 or more.
• For Move Silently and Hide In Shadows, a Luck penalty reduces the chance of success by 1% per point, but you cannot compensate for this penalty beyond the recommended combined values listed above. If you cannot get rid of the Luck penalty, the recommended combined values do not change, but you'll have to accept a smaller chance of success.
• For Set Traps to set basic and special snares, a Luck penalty reduces the chance of success by 1% per point, but only if the chance of success is less than 100%. If the Set Traps value is 100 or more, a Luck penalty has no effect.

Recommended Stats for Save Scummers:
Some people don't care about a 99% or 100% success chance. They just want to know the required value to have a chance. If the attempt fails, they can simply reload and try again.

• You still need a Pick Pockets value of 95 to steal from every possible inventory slot. This is enough to have a chance to steal from every possible creature in BGEE, SOD and IWDEE. You need a Pick Pockets value of 137 to have a chance to steal from every possible creature in BG2EE.
• You need a Pick Pockets value of 36 to have a chance to steal from every possible store in BGEE, 96 for SOD, and 129 for BG2EE.
• The Open Locks and Find Traps values listed above are already the required minimums.
• You need a combined Move Silently and Hide In Shadows value of 2 to have a chance to enter and remain in Stealth in darkness, and 4 in bright daylight.
• You need a Detect Illusion value of 0 to have chance to dispel any illusion.
• You need a Set Traps value of 1 to have a chance to set any snare or trap.
• Luck bonuses do not reduce these minimum values.
• Every point of Luck penalty requires you to invest 2 additional points in the combined Move Silently and Hide In Shadows value for darkness, and 4 additional points for bright daylight.
• Every point of Luck penalty requires you to invest 1 additional point in the Set Traps value to place a basic or special snare.

Note: These are the absolute minimum values to have a chance of success, often leading to only 1% chance of success. Adding just a few more points raises the chance of success by a couple percent, severely reducing the amount of reloads required to get a success. The 95 Pick Pockets value for BGEE, SOD and IWDEE is an exception. This is a hard requirement to access every possible inventory slot, and already provides a larger than 1% chance to steal from any creature in those games.

Guaranteed Success for Open Locks and Disarm Traps.
The Open Locks and Find Traps listed above are the minimum required value to open any possible lock or disarm any possible trap. These attempts can fail against the toughest locks and traps, but since there is no downside to failure, you can simply keep trying until you succeed. Since the roll is only 1d10, you should succeed after a few tries.

• To succeed on the first try, you need an Open Locks of 96 for BGEE, 100 for SOD, BG2EE and IWDEE, and 151 for the door inside Saradush Prison (BG2EE).
• To succeed on the first try, you need a Find Traps of 100 for BGEE, 91 for SOD, 102 for BG2EE, 96 for IWDEE, and 111 for the trap outside Sendai's Hideout (BG2EE). You still need a Find Traps value of 120 to detect the trap inside Kiser's Home (BG2EE).

Note: Since these values guarantee a 100% success chance, Luck no longer affects this chance. Alternatively, if you have a reliable Luck bonus, you can reduce these values by 1 per reliable point of Luck bonus, but not below the recommended values listed earlier in this document.

Thels

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES

The Thieving Ability values listed on the Character Generation, Character Record and Level Up screens include modifiers from race and dexterity. The Character Record screen also includes modifiers from equipment and other effects.

Thieves (including Swashbucklers, Dual- and Multiclass combinations) gain 40 points to invest at level 1, and an additional 25 points for each level gained.

• Assassins gain 40 points to invest at level 1, but only 15 additional points for each level gained.
• Bounty Hunters gain 40 points to invest at level 1, but only 20 additional points for each level gained. Bounty Hunters start with +15 Set Traps.
• Shadowdancers only gain 30 points to invest at level 1, and only 20 additional points for each level gained. Shadowdancers start with +10 Move Silently and +10 Hide In Shadows, but do not have access to Set Traps (including High-Level Ability Traps).

Note: The Bounty Hunter's bonus to Set Traps is included on the Character Generation, Character Record and Level Up screens. The Shadowdancer's bonus to Move Silently and Hide In Shadows is included on the Character Record and Level Up screens, but not on the Character Generation screen.

You cannot raise a Thieving Ability above 250 on the Character Generation and Level Up screens. This includes bonuses from race, kit and dexterity. You can however raise a Thieving Ability to 250, and then raise your dexterity after, to get an even higher value.

A Potion of Master Thievery provides a +40 temporary bonus to Pick Pockets and Open Locks.

A Potion of Perception provides a +20 temporary bonus to Pick Pockets, Open Locks and Find Traps.

• In BGEE and SOD, it also provides this bonus to Hide In Shadows.
• In BG2EE, it also provides this bonus to Move Silently. The description claims to also provide this bonus to Hide In Shadows, but this is incorrect.
• In IWDEE, it also provides this bonus to Move Silently and Hide in Shadows.

A Potion of Power provides a temporary bonus to Pick Pockets, Open Locks, Find Traps and Hide In Shadows equal to 20% of the points invested to those Thieving Abilities on the Character Generation and Level Up screens. This does not include any modifiers from race, kit, dexterity, equipment or other effects.

• In IWDEE, it also provides this bonus to Move Silently.
• This effect is rounded down. The potion effectively grants a +1 bonus for every 5 points invested.

In the BGEE Prologue, the chest containing the Star Sapphire has a lock difficulty of 65. An Open Locks value of 57 or more is required to open it, or 66 if you want to open it on the first try.

In BGEE with the NPC Project, an interaction between Imoen and Safana grants Imoen a permanent +5 bonus to Open Locks.

atcDave

A lot of useful stuff, you did a ton of work on this!

One question, it always seems to be the traps in the BG1 wilderness area on the east side of the map (Spider or Etercap traps?) where the red wizards hang out at the old ruin, are very hard to detect? Impossible even? Most often I have a thief at over 100, and I can never find those two. Is there a particular trick to them? Or are we doomed?!

jmerry

The trick to those web traps? Just a matter of where they're placed. I think you have to get close enough to the "launch point" to detect the traps, and all three have their launch points farther inside the clearing than the trigger regions. Which means you have to get uncomfortably close to the trigger regions before you have any chance of detecting them.

Nothing special about the detection difficulty; those are all in the 40-50 range.

atcDave

Ah, that's good to know. Thank You!

Thels

Basically what Jmerry said, yes.

I tend to use Trap Overhaul, Fast Detection only. This allows Thieves to detect traps instantly instead of every 6.67 seconds. That combined with Auto-Pause on Traps Find eliminates the need for Thieves to perform baby steps to spot those traps.

atcDave

I was already planning on using the faster detection from Tweaks for my next run. I assume that does something similar?

Thels

atcDave wrote: »

I was already planning on using the faster detection from Tweaks for my next run. I assume that does something similar?

From which Tweaks exactly?

atcDave

“CDTweaks”. The big one from G3.

Thels

atcDave wrote: »

“CDTweaks”. The big one from G3.

Tweaks Anthology (cdtweaks) doesn't have such a component.

atcDave

Okay, that must be why I’d never selected it…