Speed up passage of time with a key-press for fast travel

caruga

Have a key you can hold that speeds up the entire passage of time for everything. It halts on the following triggers:
1) Anything that would pause the game in auto-pause mode
2) Walking into fog of war

In other words, it's a way to 'fast travel' back through areas you've already been through. If you spot a trap or an enemy, the game will immediately return to normal speed. And you can't use it to wizz through unexplored places.

Maybe optionally have it speed up the music (or play yakety sax) as well for comic effect.

AndreaColombo

Couldn't you just CTRL+J your way across areas you have already explored? That's what I usually do when I don't feel like waiting for my party to walk the distance.

Tanthalas

Well, CTRL+J goes into the cheats category because it would allow you to "teleport" over any enemy encounter along the way.

AndreaColombo

Then again, if the area had already been explored, there wouldn't really be much left to avoid. Respawns, perhaps, but are they really worth implementing a new feature as opposed to simply use CTRL+J? I guess that's up to each gamer's personal taste.

wbouvy

Wouldn't your pc (/Mac/iPad) be overloaded by you basically quadrupling the framerate? This could quickly break scripts and give some weird bugs. I like the idea though, it seems to circumvent the movement speed discussions.

caruga

but are they really worth implementing a new feature as opposed to simply use CTRL+J?

Well if you're asking me: yes. :P

Zeckul

I've a bad feeling about this. In BG1, that's not so much an issue because most areas are wide open and navigating to an edge is usually no problem. Movement speed could simply be a bit faster by default (as in BG2).

The problem really manifests itself in areas that are large and difficult to navigate, like say the Cloakwood Mines. In my view it's a combination of pathfinding and level design issues, and I don't think such a persasive gameplay mechanic is the appropriate answer. Besides the potential performance problems on weaker platforms such as the iPad, the various constraints to make it not work in such and such situations will make it feel unreliable, and also I see such a time-warping feature as a major immersion killer. People complained to no end about fast travel in Oblivion, and fast travel wasn't nearly as visually jarring as a time speedup.

caruga

The problem really manifests itself in areas that are large and difficult to navigate, like say the Cloakwood Mines.

I'm wondering which problem you are refering to.

In my view it's a combination of pathfinding and level design issues, and I don't think such a persasive gameplay mechanic is the appropriate answer. Besides the potential performance problems on weaker platforms such as the iPad,

I don't see any. Ipad is faster than a 1998 or even 2001 PC, if I'm not mistaken. I never ran into pathfinding issues when I bumped the node level to 400000, not even in the maze below the thieves guild.

the various constraints to make it not work in such and such situations will make it feel unreliable,

Still not seeing the constraints, you'll have to clarify a little.

and also I see such a time-warping feature as a major immersion killer. People complained to no end about fast travel in Oblivion, and fast travel wasn't nearly as visually jarring as a time speedup.

I agree on that, but it's not like the game speeds up of its own volition. I'll invoke the argument of my enemies (only joking, but I got precisely this said to me when I supported tab being removed on the Beamdog forum) and say that you needn't use it!

caruga

Wouldn't your pc (/Mac/iPad) be overloaded by you basically quadrupling the framerate?

Technically that's not what you do, you can't force the framerate to go faster than it can go. It takes frame-skipping, while still counting for every frame when it comes to game-state despite not rendering them all (which would bypass the glitches you suggest).

It may look a bit choppy but it depends on how many frames you skip. BG's native framerate is 30, what's the ipad display's? If you have a refresh rate of 60 you can double the speed without any real frame loss.

Zeckul

I'm wondering which problem you are refering to.

The problem your proposed feature adresses, i.e. not being able to quickly travel through areas.

I don't see any. Ipad is faster than a 1998 or even 2001 PC, if I'm not mistaken. I never ran into pathfinding issues when I bumped the node level to 400000, not even in the maze below the thieves guild.

The problems with pathfinding are well-known, Trent Oster even tweeted they hadn't fixed them yet but they eventually would (

http://twitter.com/trentoster/status/194762382185205760).

As for performance, obviously I don't have any measurements on the BGEE game code, but in order to run a 30fps game at 60, that means you have to go through your entire logic and drawing in 16ms rather than 33. Even if they skip half the drawing frames, that's still a very short update time. It's an old game but that doesn't necessarily mean it can trivially run twice faster. Also what happens in multiplayer?

the various constraints to make it not work in such and such situations will make it feel unreliable,

Still not seeing the constraints, you'll have to clarify a little.

The constraints you have specified yourself: doesn't work if walking into fog of war, pauses on auto-pause triggers. Think about what happens if an npc accidentally runs into fog of war during the speed-up: does it auto-pause and focus on the npc causing the halt? If it doesn't, how is the user made aware of why it halted? In both cases it's a bad user experience.

and also I see such a time-warping feature as a major immersion killer. People complained to no end about fast travel in Oblivion, and fast travel wasn't nearly as visually jarring as a time speedup.

I agree on that, but it's not like the game speeds up of its own volition. I'll invoke the argument of my enemies (only joking, but I got precisely this said to me when I supported tab being removed on the Beamdog forum) and say that you needn't use it!

Well that doesn't really defend the feature. If the feature is a major immersion killer, then most won't use it, and if most won't use it then it won't get done. Or if most use it, then most get their immersion broken and that's even worse.

caruga

The problem your proposed feature adresses, i.e. not being able to quickly travel through areas.

I think you misunderstood me if you thought it was about circumventing pathfinding issues. It's merely about quicktravelling.

It's an old game but that doesn't necessarily mean it can trivially run twice faster.

It wouldn't be running twice as fast, it would be skipping every other frame and running at the same speed.

The constraints you have specified yourself: doesn't work if walking into fog of war, pauses on auto-pause triggers. Think about what happens if an npc accidentally runs into fog of war during the speed-up: does it auto-pause and focus on the npc causing the halt? If it doesn't, how is the user made aware of why it halted? In both cases it's a bad user experience.

Bad in what way? You said it breaks immersion: I agree it does a little, and I may or may not use such a feature myself. I also think it's harmless to be there for those who want to use it.

Well that doesn't really defend the feature. If the feature is a major immersion killer, then most won't use it, and if most won't use it then it won't get done. Or if most use it, then most get their immersion broken and that's even worse.

Major immersion killer for whom? You say most won't use it, but you're 1 person. Not everyone would find it a serious immersion killer, and not everyone cares too much about immersion.

Personally I'd have to see it in action to know how badly it affects immersion. The mind has the amazing ability to suspend disbelief, and it can be quite elastic when it comes to doing that with a little persuasion.

PhillipDaigle

Our plan is to charge you $5 for a party-wide buff of superspeed that lasts for 2 minutes. $5 each time you cast it. Also, it posts to your Facebook about how you've just cast the spell.

Zeckul

I think you misunderstood me if you thought it was about circumventing pathfinding issues. It's merely about quicktravelling.

I understand you want quick traveling through areas, as I stated. I also say that part of the reason traveling through areas can be slow is pathfinding and level design issues.

It wouldn't be running twice as fast, it would be skipping every other frame and running at the same speed.

It still has to update the game logic, otherwise nothing will happen on the skipped frame, i.e. the characters won't even move. So the net effect would be characters moving at the same speed. Running twice as many updates per second is doable assuming a logical update currently takes less than 17 ms (they have 33 ms to fully run through update + drawing). You don't know a logical update currently takes less than 17 ms in the BGEE code any more than I do, so there are potential performance problems there.

Bad in what way?

It's a bad user experience to suddenly interrupt what the user is doing and relocate the camera somewhere potentially completely different (which is why all the auto-pause options are off by default and hidden 3 levels deep in the menus, btw), just because the game has decided that the move is illegal. In any case, that is frustrating + dislocating. It's also a bad user experience to interrupt what the user is doing without any obvious indication of why. The user might just think the feature is buggy because he can't figure out why it sometimes work and sometimes it doesn't, or it randomly stops working. So in both of the cases I explained, it's a bad user experience.

Major immersion killer for whom? You say most won't use it, but you're 1 person. Not everyone would find it a serious immersion killer, and not everyone cares too much about immersion.

As I said, I base this on a similarly-purposed feature in Oblivion (fast travel) that was much less visually jarring. Therefore I suspect this would be even worse. Can you find an example of a game where such a feature as your proposal exists? If it hasn't never been used maybe it's because it's not a particularly good idea.

caruga

It still has to update the game logic, otherwise nothing will happen on the skipped frame, i.e. the characters won't even move. So the net effect would be characters moving at the same speed. Running twice as many updates per second is doable assuming a logical update currently takes less than 17 ms (they have 33 ms to fully run through update + drawing). You don't know a logical update currently takes less than 17 ms in the BGEE code any more than I do, so there are potential performance problems there.

Well true, but I don't see it myself.

It's a bad user experience to suddenly interrupt what the user is doing and relocate the camera somewhere potentially completely different (which is why all the auto-pause options are off by default and hidden 3 levels deep in the menus, btw).

Relocate the camera? Is that something auto-pause does? Because I've never used it. The camera behaviour should be configurable.

It's also a bad user experience to interrupt what the user is doing without any obvious indication of why.

But it would be obvious?

As I said, I base this on a similarly-purposed feature in Oblivion (fast travel) that was much less visually jarring. Therefore I suspect this would be even worse. Can you find an example of a game where such a feature as your proposal exists? If it hasn't never been used maybe it's because it's not a particularly good idea.

Maybe; I thought it was because nobody had thought of it. And the comparison to Oblivion is apples and oranges. In fast travel the game really does allow you to bypass any encounters that would normally occur on the way; this suggestion allows for that to all occur as it normally would.

Zeckul

So how do you propose to make it obvious to the user why the speed up stops if one his characters, currently not on-screen, runs into the fog of war?

nulspace

@PhillipDaigle I smell post-release DLC!

Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition: Speed of the Gods DLC

caruga

So how do you propose to make it obvious to the user why the speed up stops if one his characters, currently not on-screen, runs into the fog of war?

Well I can think of a couple of ways of dealing with it off-hand:
1. Make it impossible to click into fog of war whilst holding down the key/having the mode enabled, and have the pathfinding navigate around fog as if it were solid wall.
2. Give textual feedback as to what caused the interruption.

caruga

@PhillipDaigle I smell post-release DLC!

Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition: Speed of the Gods DLC

@nulspace
I think you mean "Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition: Faster than Chitika Fastpaws dlc. "

No wait: "Trent Oster buys a new ferrari with the proceeds from this DLC DLC".

wbouvy

Can you find an example of a game where such a feature as your proposal exists? If it hasn't never been used maybe it's because it's not a particularly good idea.

Many single player space-sims have this feature, such as X3, though I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.