Aerie's defence

FredN

Thus seems a bit weird; not sure if it is some sort of glitch, or something due to her physical nature. With the usual spells, we can pump her AC up to -1; still not great, but acceptable. However, no matter what bracers I give her ... AC 4, AC 3 .... her AC never changes. Nalia's AC, on the other hand, does vary depending on what bracers she is wearing. What's going on here?

jmerry

If you have several different effects that set base AC, the best one is used. Possible sources of such effects include:
- Bracers of AC N.
- Body armor, including some types of robe.
- Spells. Armor, Shield, Ghost Armor, Spirit Armor, Barkskin.

I suspect you have a fairly strong AC-setting effect on Aerie, which renders those bracers moot. And you don't have one on Nalia.

atcDave

Just to pick on Jmerry’s comment, I’d guess the most likely thing either Cloak of the Archmagi or Robe of Vecna (both have a base AC of 5). Both are available any time you can afford them and have a decent base armor class. Only better Bracers of Defense would offer any improvement.

Since Aerie’s 17 Dexterity gives a bonus of 3 to her armor class, you’ve got some combination of gear giving her an AC of 2.

FredN

OK I should note that Aerie has Ghost Armor spell usully in effect. From what you are saying, that would make any effect from bracers inactive. She doesn't have any body armor or robes. I can give her a +1 cloak, and that does boost her AC by +1. Hmm, I should be able to give her some body armor, which would inactivate her mage spells, but leave her cleric spells intact. She could still use wands ... we have half a dozen of those at the moment. I'll also have to experiment and see what happens if I don't have her cast Ghost Armor. Would that make bracers effective for her?

jmerry

It's more that if you give her the AC 3 bracers, then there's no real reason to cast Ghost Armor (AC 2). A third-level mage slot just to improve AC by 1 for an in-game hour? Probably not worth it. But if you don't give her those bracers, then you do want an armor spell.

Basically, pick one "AC = N" effect to use, and then don't bother with any others. An AC-setting effect weaker than your standard is useless, and even one that's stronger than your standard has reduced value because it's not much of an improvement.

Effects like a cloak/ring/amulet of protection, or a shield? That's different. An "AC +X" effect does stack with "AC = N", and with other "AC +X" effects.

Oh, and of course you're not going to give Aerie any sort of body armor that blocks mage spellcasting. That would just be silly. But eventually you'll be able to buy something like archmage robes (AC = 5) or find a set of elven chain (AC = 5 base, further modified by enchantment level) that does allow her to cast all her spells.

FredN

OK here is a late update. I amended Nalia's training to be similar to Aerie's, including things like Ghost Armor, and now her AC is not affrcted by Bracers either. Interesting. I used to think Bracers of Defence were necessary for mages, but now it sems that they are sort of situational.

Wisterias

Tbh I don't really care about CA, specially in mages. Stoneskin and different buffs like weapon inmunities, invisibility and so on are enough, but the most important thing is "don't get hit, move around, use haste".

Humanoid_Taifun

Stoneskin lasts much longer when backed by decent AC. If Aerie has to step up to protect Minsc from the big scary Fire Giants, I'd rather not waste time recasting it mid-fight — better that she can focus on healing him and throwing attack spells.

Also, a small addendum to what @jmerry said; it's true that only one source sets a character's base AC, but that doesn't mean the other sources are irrelevant.
Example:
Viconia wears Human Flesh +5 and also drinks a Potion of Defense. The potion takes priority, so her base AC becomes 0. But the armor's penalties against Piercing and Missile still apply. In fact, she'd actually be harder to hit with those types if she took it off.
On the other hand, if she put on plain Studded Leather, her AC vs. Slashing, Piercing and Missile would all improve, even though her overall AC wouldn't change.

Wisterias

Humanoid_Taifun wrote: »

Stoneskin lasts much longer when backed by decent AC. If Aerie has to step up to protect Minsc from the big scary Fire Giants, I'd rather not waste time recasting it mid-fight — better that she can focus on healing him and throwing attack spells.

Also, a small addendum to what @jmerry said; it's true that only one source sets a character's base AC, but that doesn't mean the other sources are irrelevant.
Example:
Viconia wears Human Flesh +5 and also drinks a Potion of Defense. The potion takes priority, so her base AC becomes 0. But the armor's penalties against Piercing and Missile still apply. In fact, she'd actually be harder to hit with those types if she took it off.
On the other hand, if she put on plain Studded Leather, her AC vs. Slashing, Piercing and Missile would all improve, even though her overall AC wouldn't change.

Ofc it's better to have a good AC, but i mean it's not my main goal, 90% of the time you can rely on summoned creatures/Mordenkainen Swords to tank enemies anyway 🙃.

In LOB AC is pretty useless too, and summons are even more tanky.

FredN

I have a bit of an update and a question. I got basic, non-magical bucklers for both Nalia and Aerie, a simple addition which gave both of them +1 AC.
1) Neither Nalia nor Aerie are using any bracers right now, nor are either of them wearing any armor, enchanted robes or the like. Nalia and Aerie are both wearing Armor, Shield and Ghost armor spells. Both are around the same level mage ... level 11 for Nalia, 10 for Aerie. Yet their ACs are significantly different. Aerie's AC is a respectable -2, while Nalia is rocking a very nice -6. I am curious what the reason might be for this discrepancy. OK, Nalia is wearing a +1 cloak, and has a Dex of 18 vs 17 for Aerie, but that only accounts for at most a +2 difference. (Aerie is opting for the non-detection cloak instead).
2) For comparison, Jaheira, Anomen and Mazzy are all AC -2, while my Swashbuckler is also at -6.

jmerry

Four points of difference? You've already listed two of it. The other two is Nalia's downright amazing undroppable ring.
(Oh, and that Armor spell is really very useless. The Shield spell is still useful for the missile bonus and immunity to Magic Missile, but the basic Armor spell only has base AC going for it and you've superseded that. Might as well spend that spell slot on something else that might have a chance at being useful.)

FredN

Nalia's ring? Oh bloody heck! I knew she was wearing the family signet ring, but I never actually looked at it before. I just thought it was some sign of her family's nobility, the analogue of some sort of tiara or coat of arms. Well, I just looked now and yeah, that does indeed account for the difference. Thanks for the heads up. You learn new stuff all the time with this game.