New(?) thought on Swashbuckler vs Fighter/Thief

newguy

I've read many threads/posts on this topic (all very enjoyable and informative), but I have not seen anyone mention this point. Maybe no one thought of it...or maybe it's not a viable point, and I'm mistaken. Anyway, here is my thought...

Several have mentioned that Swashbucklers level much faster, but I am wondering if there is a hidden advantage to that. Here's why.... When I bring over a toon from BG1 and SoD, they tend to be one level higher than if I had created a new toon in BG2. When I then take the imported toon and recruit the different NPC's...they instantly level up to either match me or be one level below me (can't remember which). So I'm thinking...if a Swashbuckler levels up super fast...could this possibly result in each npc in your party getting an additional free level or even two?

DinoDin

I assume you're using the EE's, but companion levels don't work in this way. It works, iirc, based on the average experience points of your party at recruitment. Obviously the protagonist's experience will drive this in Irenicus' dungeon. It also sets new companion experience at certain benchmarks close to your average experience, it doesn't precisely match the number.

So, while you will level much faster, recruited companions won't be any higher level than if you had played as a sorcerer or a paladin. You might be confusing the original way the games worked with how the EE's worked. IIRC, the original BG2 did indeed scale recruited companions to your level. I specifically remember a single-class thief playthrough I did a looong time ago, and yeah Minsc and Jaheira were quite boosted because of it.

Just an added thought, only slightly off your main question: Swashbuckler -> Fighter dual is a pretty solid build to consider. You really only need to pursue locks and find traps with a swashbuckler, since you won't be backstabbing, and you can get a quick start on building up a (likely secondary) weapon to use, so you can potentially start the dual at level 5. It's a solid build for a full saga run, though it does require careful planning. There's no good tanky thief companions in the whole saga imo, so it fills a solid niche. You can recruit and ranger and a bard to round out any other needed thief skills.

newguy

DinoDin wrote: »

I assume you're using the EE's, but companion levels don't work in this way. It works, iirc, based on the average experience points of your party at recruitment.

I guess this is exactly the information I needed. I never realized that, but it makes total sense. Thank you for clarifying that!

As far as the Swash-->Fighter dual, I prefer to have access to Thief HLA's...and also, just for a new experience, I've never had the Thief stronghold before...so thought I'd give that try. After what you shared though, I am definitely rethinking the Swash vs F/T.
Much appreciated!

DinoDin

Not trying to change your build, I've enjoyed single-class thief playthroughs too. Just adding a note that a thief->fighter dual can take the thief stronghold. Just have to make sure not to activate the keep stronghold first. And you won't be limited on any thief gear.

jmerry

The joining experience triggers are based on the protagonist's XP only. Other party members are irrelevant. In the SoA campaign, the thresholds are 89K, 125K, 250K, 500K, 750K, 1000K, 1250K; the joining character goes up to the last threshold you've passed.

The EE games have a vestigial level-based system - different versions of characters based on the party's average level - but it only ever matters for Imoen in the BG1 campaign (if she joins when your average party level is 2 or more, she joins as her level 2 version instead of her level 1 version).

Humanoid_Taifun

So, in short:
Yes, it is possible to game the system to gain higher level companions. But not by picking a faster-leveling class.
Instead, you solo for a while to drain a few easy XP pools until you reach one of the thresholds where NPCs would join at a higher level.
Then you go and collect your party.

(though as a side effect, your protagonist also ends up with a little more XP this way)

newguy

This is all super interesting and very helpful!!! Thanks so much for sharing...and jmerry, thanks for listing the exact numbers so that I can reference them on my next playthrough!

FredN

I would like to note that you can indeed recruit a decent thief, if you aren't squeamish. I am speaking of Hexxat. She isn't any tankier than, say, Jan but indoors, underground or at night she is good to have around. Among other things, she has a potload of vampiric immunities. Charm, level drain, poison, disease etc. have no effect on her. Obviously certain NPCs cannot function with her in the party. Keldorn, Mazzy and knighted Anomen come to mind.

FredN

Also, I have posted elsewhere about my Berserker-> thief, but this is also a very solid build. Currenty I'm Level 7 Berserker->Thief level 24. (mIddle of chapter 6 SoA and ready to whack Bodhi permanently). Berserking gives you immunity to a lot of status effects ... including level drain, which is seriouly useful when fighting the Vampires ... and I have Grand Mastery in both Longswords (for backstabbing) and Bastard swords (for Foebane!). Just for laughs, I put some pips in other weapons, although they will hardly be needed. Backstab damage is 5X, THACO is 0, attacks 5/2.