more swashbuckler
FredN
Member Posts: 766
....Why can't I use maces? I can use clubs, a +3 cleric staff, even the bloody staff of fire, and summon fire elementals. Why can't I use a mace? A mace is just a slightly heavier club. Specifically, I'd like to use the upgraded mace of disruption, considering how many vampires there are running around, but alas, I cannot.
....My advancement is woefully slow. I just turned 15 trains and need something like 250,000 experience. Now I really want to know WHY I still only can set 3 traps. The docs say I should be able to set 4.
....My weapon advancement is also slow. I know I am no warrior, but I am very dependent on weapon skill when fighting. Since I can't backstab, they should throw me a bone here. Yeah, I know I get a bonus on demage when I advance, but again, weapon proficiency advances at a crawl. It's frustrating.
Yeah, I'm venting. Sue me.
....My advancement is woefully slow. I just turned 15 trains and need something like 250,000 experience. Now I really want to know WHY I still only can set 3 traps. The docs say I should be able to set 4.
....My weapon advancement is also slow. I know I am no warrior, but I am very dependent on weapon skill when fighting. Since I can't backstab, they should throw me a bone here. Yeah, I know I get a bonus on demage when I advance, but again, weapon proficiency advances at a crawl. It's frustrating.
Yeah, I'm venting. Sue me.
Post edited by FredN on
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....He can go berserk 2X a day. Berserk not only makes him immune to level drain, it also protects against almost every known adverse status effect. Now that his thief level has exceeded his berserker, he can use any item a fiighter type can. He is currently in Full Plate armor, for example, while still beiing able to use all thief skills. Also, his proficiency with the two chosen weapons will continue to rise, until he reaches Grand Mastery. No need for the Swashbuckler's comparatively feeble two weapon skill.
....Mind you, I knew from the start that this wiould be the case. I created the Swashbuckler for the challenge. And challenges I am facing! Be careful what you wish for; you just might get it.
One way to use the Swashbuckler kit in a way you intend is to do a dual of Swashbuckler->Fighter. Ideally you'd dual right at level 5, for a quick unlock. But a new BG2 thief can be dualed right at the start too. Be sure to cover thief skills like locks, traps, maybe even add pickpocket. Obviously avoid stealth investing. You either unlock on hitting fighter level 6 (full saga) or level 9 (BG2). So you can have three or four pips in maces and whatever original weapon you took as a swashbuckler. I'd suggest two points in daggers initially, to use throwing daggers in early BG1. But alot more freedom here for a BG2 start.
You end up with fighter HLA's in ToB which are outstanding. You'll have tiny boosts to your base fighting stats over what a single class fighter would, with almost no sacrifice in terms of level. Won't take long in SoA to even find a thief-friendly armor with a competitive AC.
....I have also scored the Night's Gift armor and Worn Whispers boots, so I now hide at 110% chance. Girdle of Hill Giant strength adds to THACO, and I have a couple of decent weapons. Daystar is nice vs Undead, and Arbane's sword is good as an offhand. Eventually I plan on adding pips in Katanas; will grab Celestial Fury when it becomes available.
....And I have maxxed out most of my thief support skills like disarm traps and pick locks. I have what I think is a reasonable training plan to let me fill a decent support role. It's just that it is taking forever! We just finished the Planar Sphere quest; everyone got something like140,000 experience total, and I still am only halfway to level 15. My speed of advancement is positively glacial.
....Also, I couldn't dual over to any other class in any case. I'm not a human; I picked full Elf so as to get their charm immunity. One less thing to worry about.
although to be fair, if you are going to play swashbuckler you really need to know what you are doing and realistically your gear options are quite low comparable to other classes ( like your berserker/thief ) but with the right gear, swashbucklers can be awesome;
first if you start in BG1 and transfer over to BG2 grabbing a tome of STR and the claw of kazgaroth is great, since you gain bonus HP up to 16 CON you can increase your CON to 18 and still get full HP and the benefits of the claw which is a nice little bonus
plus if you are going straight swash without dual classing, there are 3 races in my opinion which are superior, depending on what perks you want when;
half orc; can start with 19 STR and in bg1 going up to 20 STR, i had my swash dealing 25 damage a hit in bg1 with scimitars
dwarf; AC isnt great ( but you can get the tome to get it up to 18 ) and shorty saves, plus when you get the tome of STR you are now at 19, absolutely solid
halfling; most thief skill points, plus can hit 20 DEX in bg1 ( which just gives more thief skills ) but by ToB you can hit 21 DEX which gives you that extra DEX bonus, which might not sound like much but since swashbucklers get SO MUCH AC in ToB if your DEX bonus is +4 you will only hit -24 AC, while having 21 DEX will make it so you can hit -25 AC, especially if you play on difficulties where enemies deal more damage per hit, it pays to not actually have them hit you, and even in ToB i had high level enemies miss with 19s on attack rolls at that AC so its pretty solid. although unfortunately in bg1 you can only hit 18 STR so you will either need the mits of ogre power and need to use a belt in bg2, but by ToB if you do the wrath trial and go the STR route, your little halfling can have 20 STR naturally which is absolutely solid
out of the 3 races, i would say halfling is my favourite, but for people who are new to the class, half orc can be a good starting choice thanks to that high STR
now gear wise, even in BG1 i believe i hit -8 AC by level 10 with no buffs, and weapons of choice; scimitars, and more specifically; drizzt's scimitars, those weapons are godly for BG1 and they really help out a swash ( especially if you have 19 STR ) at those low levels so you will actually hit something, plus the AC bonus from twinkle is solid
in bg2 speed weapons is the name of the game, and if you started in bg1 and went the scimitar route then you are in luck because the druid quest in trademeet has 2 awesome scimitars to start with ( with belm giving you an extra attack per round ) then after that you have 2 choices; go short swords for kundane so then you are wielding x2 speed weapons right away ( which is found in the planar sphere ) for x4 APR or start placing points in katana so you can wield celestial fury with belm +2 ( so your main hand hits as a +3 weapon) and still get a base x3 APR
then when you hit level 24 the first thief ability you choose is UAI so then you can use the +3 scarlet ninto-jo from joluv ( in the copper cohornet ) and either use celestial fury and ninto jo for x2 +3 weapons at 3 APR or use ninto jo and belm so you have main hand +3 and 4 APR
also with the UAI you can wear full plate mails to really crank the AC, plus the armor modifiers on full plate are really good, or if you really desire to keep your thief abilities the white dragon scale in watchers keep gives the same base AC bonus of fullplate +3 and doesnt cancel out your thief skills
in the end, swashbucklers are kind of like monks, where they start off a bit lacking in the beginning but as they start grabbing some levels and some gear, they start pulling their weight, and then by end SoA/ beginning ToB they really start wrecking house
Also, has anyone figured out why I still can only set 3 traps, instead of 4?
you start off with 1 trap at level 1, and then for every 5 levels that you gain after first level, you gain another trap per day, so at level 6 you get your second trap, at level 11 your get your third and at level 16 you get your 4th
also gear wise, with black scale dragon armor, ring of gaxx, cloak of sewers, ring of earth elemental control ( or claw of kazgaroth ), with at least 18 DEX and at level 10 you will have -10 AC, which is solid for bg2, then if you hit level 25 in bg2 with UAI you can grab a helmet of AC +1 and some full plate +3 and be at -17 AC, do the trial in hell in chapter 7 that gives you the AC bonus and it will go down to -19 AC, and this is till only in SoA
in ToB you should be able to max out your AC either at -24 or -25, depending if your DEX hits 21 or not ( since the game engine only allows a base of -20, plus DEX bonus ) and with 21 STR ( which you can achieve without a belt of STR if you do the wrath trial and get the STR bonus and get the STR bonus from machine of lum the mad ) your thac0 should still hit around -7/-8 which is still pretty solid for someone in melee and your damage output should be pretty near 30 damage a hit
also, for a nice HP boost, wait until ToB and cast find familiar, you will gain a permanent 24 HP boost, which really helps to improve your CHAR's squishiness, this plus the HP trial in hell in chapter 7 in SoA, and the HP boost from the deck of many things will make it so you can hit over 190 HP for your swashy in ToB
.... Probably I have been spoiled by past experiences. I have always had primary weapon users, or mixed types like my Berserker->Thief monstrosity. I had a Half-Orc berserker who ended up level 30 with a THACO of -11, using the +6 Ravager. Never had a pure thief of any sort in the past. My expectations were probably unrealiztic.
.... And of course, UAI is a slill that makes Thief types really nasty. But right now, that seems a long way off.
that is one of the "disadvantages" of the swash, is that the to hit, isn't super stellar, although its not terribly horrible, in SoA the amount of enemies who are rocking AC of say -5 or less is not much, and even with thac0 of 3 you should be hitting pretty good, if your STR isn't 19, then belt of giant STR, gauntlets of weapon skill and pale green iounstone all help to get that thac0 lower, with these 3 items and x2 +2 weapons at level 15 if you only have 2 profs in two weapon fighting and 2 profs in the weapons you are wielding, you should have a thac0 of 2 and 6, then at level 16 you can put that 3rd point in two weapon fighting to have 2 and 4, if you are able to get a +3 weapon that you have 2 profs in, then your main hand with be thaco 1 and level 17 it will be 0, level 19 it will be -1 and then level 20 it will be -2
.... I only have one 3x Long sword; Daystar, alas, is on;y 2x, as is Arbane's. I do have one 3X longsword, which I use vs normal foes; but we fight so many undead when we go up against Bodhi and her crew that I end up using Daystar a lot. I cou;d buy the Sword of Mask, which is a 4x short sword, but I would be losing the special qualities that Arbane's has, which are immunity to hold and paralysis. I could get a 3X short sword with no special buffs if I wanted it, but that Free Action effect is very useful in any situation that involves enemy spell casters.
the ability that arbane gives you can be replicated by the level 4 cleric spell free action, plus free action also makes you immune to haste ( unless you are playing a modded game that gets rid of that disadvantage ) which now makes it so you only have 2 attacks per round as apposed to having a speed weapon in the off hand and using haste to have 4 attacks per round, personally i find using celestial fury for a main hand better ( that stun effect is just so good ) and if you need someone to use longswords, haer dalis and keldorn can do both right out of the gate
but, if you dont have those two around, daystar for a main hand still isn't too shabby, as long as you can get up to 4 APR ( this includes using haste ) if you have short swords and longswords luckily kudane +2 ( found in the planar prison ) is a short sword that gives +1 APR, a great off hand weapon to help make up the APR with the main hand
also remember as well, when dual wielding 2 weapons how the game engine works is that regardless of the APR you have with 2 weapons, you only get 1 APR with off hand each round and every other attack will be the main hand