Bastard +1 Vs. Ashideena +2? i dont get it.

Qayin

as i've only beated BG once (and BG never) when it came out, i remember nothing.
i do remember that weapons aren't a HUGE part of the dmg system, it is equally effected by other factors.

i also don't remember TACHO needs to be high or low?
speed factor needs to be low, right?
number of attacks: 5/2 means... 5 attacks in 2 turns? (turn = 6 secs?)

about the weapons:
Ashideena +2 has
speed = 2
THAC0 +2
Dmg 1d4+3 ,+1 electrical (so assuming that its 1d4+4 gives a range of 5-8

Bastard +1 is:
speed 7 (alot slower?)
THAC0 +1 (less accuurate?)
dmg 2d4+1 is 3-9

do i understand this correctly?
i know that in a million billion levels when i dual to cleric from fighter i won't be able to use the B-sword, but i still need to understand this.
if the hammer is faster, why do i still get a number of attacks 3/2 on both weapons when equipt?
i do have a lower THACO with the mace (so i assume that lower = better)

so what i take from this is the only + to the hammer is, i will hit SLIGHTLY more often (which can be achived with a million other ways) but do less dmg? because seeing the round thing in my inventory says hammer does 13-16 (14.5 avarage) and the sword does 12-18 (15 avarage)

Ashlander

Seems Ashideena is much, much better weapon given the stats, faster, more accurate more damage per hit(average).

You don't have any weapon proficiencies that boost the bastard sword? That's the only thing that I can think of.

TJ_Hooker

Speed factor does not effect how many attacks you get. It's a fraction out of 10 of how far into the round you attack. So with 1 attack per round and a speed factor of 7 you attack at (7/10)x(6seconds)=4.2 seconds. It's a little more complicated to calculate once you get additional attacks but the idea's the same.

Qayin

@Ashlander
nope i have 2 points in b-swords and 2 in warhammers.
i also don't see how it could be better? base it is, so srsly >.< what the hell?!
and is 1 TACHO that big a deal?

@TJ_hooker
tysm for trying to explain, i got it for 1 but for 2 it does seem more complex - basically it gives u a sort of "first hit" per round i think...

im not arguing ofc, im just trying to unerstand! - so ty for trying!

TJ_Hooker

Qayin said:

@TJ_hooker
tysm for trying to explain, i got it for 1 but for 2 it does seem more complex - basically it gives u a sort of "first hit" per round i think...

Yup you pretty much got it. Having a high speed factor is simply for trying to get off an attack early in the round. It useful for: trying to hit them before they hit you, quickly hitting a spellcaster in order to disrupt their spell, backstabbing with a thief (you start to leave stealth as soon as you click to attack, and I think how long you remain stealthed from then on depends on your stealth skill, so with a low stealth skill and a high speed factor I think it may possible to become visible before you even manage to attack, thus failing to backstab).

With regards as to how to actually get more attacks per round (APR), warrior classes (fighter, paladin, ranger, and their respective kits) get an additional 1/2 APR at levels 7 and 13. Also warrior classes gain an additional 1/2 APR when attacking with a weapon they are specialized in (2 proficiency points) and another 1/2 APR at grandmastery (5 points, only fighters can go above 2 points). Also, some ranged weapons have a higher default rate of attack. Bows and throwing daggers get +1APR, darts +2APR. And then there are some spells/special abilites/magic equipment effects that grant additional attacks. Lastly, dual wielding lets you attack once per round with the second weapon, giving you a +1APR.

If you care at all about how to calculate when you attack with multiple APR:

First divide the round (6 seconds) by your APR to get seconds per attack. Let's say you have 2 attacks, which gives 3 seconds/attack. You then multiply by the speed factor to find out when in these 3 seconds you attack. So with speed factor 7 you attack first at (7/10)x3=2.1 seconds. Because you have 3 seconds/attack, your next attack will come 3 seconds later, or at 5.1 seconds. I think there's something called initiative that comes into play here that may alter these values a bit.

Ashlander

That is weird indeed. I have noticed some very weird calculations in my info screen as well.

http://i.imgur.com/gqzRG.jpg
It says I have 15 THAC0, however in the list it says I have base 20, then -5 and -1 from elf = 14THAC0.
I seriously hope it's just a display bug..
More discussion of display bug in inventory here: http://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/142xwy/inconsistencies_with_new_combat_panes_and/

Maybe yours could be similar, just displays incorrect values.

Nevertheless, it's very strange and confusing.

aXidal

One extra THACO is 5% greater chance to hit, with every attack. So while not gamebreaking by any means, it is definitely good and will make your life easier.
The hammer also deals more damage, as you mentioned and some monsters require +2 weapons to hit, although I am a bit unsure this is the case in BG1. On top of that I think blunt damage is slightly better than slashing, but do not quote me on that.

All in all: The hammer is better in every regard, and therefore there is little reason to use the bastard sword.

Regarding dual-classing, not sure if I understood your OP, but if you dual to cleric you will not be able to use the bastard sword ever again.

PlasticGolem

As a general rule, to maximize melee combat damage dealing potential, you want to maximize number of attacks followed by THAC0 followed by damage. Speed factor matters in certain situations but not most.

Calculating when a damage bonus is better than a THAC0 bonus can be a little complicated, but as a rough rule of thumb, if your THAC0 plus your character's level is more than about 15, you probably want to focus on lowering THAC0 before focusing on increasing damage. If your THAC0 is so low that you hit most of the time, then you may prefer a +1 damage boost to a +1 additional THAC0 boost.

Also note that 1d4 + 3 + 1 electrical is not the same as 1d4 + 4. In general, the former is better because it combines two different damage sources (physical and electrical) which can often go through more defences and immunities than a single source.

Debaser

@Qayin Ashadeena is by FAR my favorite weapon from previous play throughs of BG, it's speed factor is great because as stated in previous posts, you will get off an attack FIRST during a round. So...yes it will interrupt spell casting. Which can be pivotal during a lot of extremely hard fights on the insane setting.

All that being said there are some characters that I don't think would use a hammer, so I try to role play things a bit. I have rolled three Characters for BGEE so far.

Neutral Evil Blackguard who has ++ in Long Swords and ++ in Bastard Swords

Neutral Good Kensai ++ in Dual Wielding and ++ in Wakizashi / Ninja-to / Scimitar (Which he will take to Grand Mastery)

Neutral Good Cleric / Ranger ++ in Dual Wielding, ++ in Hammers, and ++ Flails / Morningstars

I know people are fixated on Katana's transitioning into BG2 (for Celestial Fury, which is amazing and yet kind of overrated to me) and Bastard Swords (For Foebane / Purifier), but Axes are good too when you get to BG2, even though they are kind of weaker picks in BG1. (Axe of the Unyielding is great),

And of course there's great Hammers in BG2 so it's always really been one of the best weapon types.

All in all, very few weapons stand up to Ashadeena in BG1, maybe the Short Sword +3...Staff of Striking...or one of the new weapons I don't know about yet...Drizzt's Scimmies...the staff mace does slightly better damage but you get it way later and it doesn't have the bonus electrical damage.

Qayin

ty everyone!

@debaser
so pretty much this is an awesome weapon im just stupid :P

Debaser

@Qayin no man, it's just that speed means something drastically different for AD&D than it does for other RPG style games...you didn't know so no big woop...I just thought I'd tell you that if you have at least too points in hammers that's a GREAT weapon, it can last the whole game.

ZanathKariashi

The extra elemental by-passes stoneskin (assuming some mages actually use it in this version), so it's also handy for interruptions. The Varscona is the longsword equivalent (1d8 +2 +1 cold, 3 speed) (and equally easy to get), hell, dual-wield both if you can (well, if you weren't going cleric, but in future runs).

Also there are a couple, but very rare enemies that do require +2 or higher to hit.

And you number of attacks per round is exactly what it says 5/2 or 2.5 per round, aka every other round you get a 3rd attack in.

Qayin

is it currect that as fighter with zerk kit i cant have over 2 points in hammers? i feel like i might have made a mistake taking berseker... i just heard people say its either that or kensei (Which i don't want) for cleric.

aXidal

Berserks may have 5 stars in hammer, just as any other fighter may. You may not place more than two stars in any proficiency at character creation however.