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Pathfinding glitches

Hello!

While i'm aware that pathfinding was never really a forte for the BG series, the pathfinding and AI here seem really off. Could we get the option to set pathfinding node processing however high we want back or something? Maybe improve mapping around other characters? While having your party get lost when moving large distances is a nuisance at best, having them stumble around each other, block each other or simply get stuck between 2 other characters and not participating/dying in combat because of this is frustrating and makes breaks gameplay flow.

I recall BG2 had these issues however they were never this bad. BG1 was arguably inferior in this regard, but i would have hoped this would have been one of the improvements the game would suffer in it's reworked state.

Is there any way we can get an upgrade of this with a coming patch?

To sum it up for people who think this is TLDR: character pathfinding around other characters of your party, especially in somewhat confined spaces is glitched as far as i can tell. Is it fixable/will it be fixed?

Comments

  • AsthnerAsthner Member Posts: 83
    Pathfinding can be modified in the .ini file (in your documents\\Baldur's Gate - Enhanced Edition folder). Just open it up with Notepad++ and finde the „path search nodes” line.
    I’m not sure how much of an improvement this actually can be; I only read that _decreasing_ the value does indeed decrease the pathfinding quality.

    Markaleth
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    Decreasing the value indeed degrades path finding, as it can find only shorter paths.
    Increasing the value makes it find longer paths, but can cause some delay before moving in slow systems.
    This shouldn't be a problem on a new machine.

    To be honest, i never noticed any pathfinding problems, even when i walked a full party across the map.

    Markaleth
  • MarkalethMarkaleth Member Posts: 9
    It's not when they move across the map that's really the issue. The party may stumble or get caught in a movement loop (only had it happen once) or chose a blocked path to the destination (my party got stuck at the friendly arms inn wall because i issued a movement command to the northern edge of the map shortly after they exited the inn). However these are all minor and a nuisance at best. The real problem i'm dealing with is having characters stuck when in combat. They generally tend to group up and block eachother. I've had this happen far more times then i care to recall, most notably when in confined spaces like corridors. Problem is the AI seems to actively work against micromanagement. Issuing a char movement orders while issuing another attack order from another char usually gets them getting stuck in eachother, which results in my party losing members. Is there any way i can up the pathfinding node calculation besides what's allredy been mentioned? Btw @avenger_teambg and @Asthner, thank you both for the insight! I'll try that out and see if it yields any results! Thank you very much!

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    @Markaleth Increasing the path nodes won't really fix this. People block each other in combat, just like it would happen in real life. Fighting/fleeing in narrow places is difficult indeed.

  • MarkalethMarkaleth Member Posts: 9
    @Avenger_teambg be that as it may, i recall BG2 having far superior pathfinding in these circumstances. I would have expected this to be at the very least on par with BG2's old pathfinding system. Can't say it's a walkthrough breaker but damn have i been cussing at this thing :)

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    Well, the code should be all the same as bg2. The corridors might be different.

    DecrepitDragon
  • AsthnerAsthner Member Posts: 83
    edited December 2012
    „It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!”, eh? ;P While I agree that it’s to be expected that characters fighting in tight corridors would have problems, there are instances when the movement is against any logic.
    A recent fight I had for example featured fighting a wolf in the open, where I sent three characters into melee. Usually they’ll go into each others path, stumble a bit, but reach the target eventually. However this time two characters engaged the wolf and the third became stuck right behind them (such that his selection circle touched their selection circles) and was unable to sidestep them to join the fight on one of the flanks. Whenever this happens I have to manually order the character to take a step back and shift-guide him to a better fighting position. (Though I’m almost sure that several times the shift-nodes got lost and a character I was plotting the path for went straight to the final destination, through some Cloudkill AoE, etc – but I haven’t been able to reproduce this, it could be battle-adrenaline induced misclicks. ;p)

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    @Asthner This happens in bg2 too. It is annoying.

  • MarkalethMarkaleth Member Posts: 9
    @Asthner Welcome to the club! I'll sip a cup of wine and think about you on my travels! :)

  • AsthnerAsthner Member Posts: 83
    @Avenger_teambg You ninja’d me while I was editing my post and adding that I’m not sure whether it’s introduced behaviour or legacy code. My party in BG1/BG2/BGT has only one melee fighter so there’s no one to collide with. :P

    @Markaleth Let’s rise a mug of ale for all those poor adventurers slaughtered by gibberlings while discussing with their friends the pros and cons of not staying out of each others way! :)

    Markaleth
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited December 2012
    I would like to add to this.

    Sometimes the issue is due to characters blocking the path. Rather than being shuffled out of the way, NPC's walk around which can lead to them taking very strange paths. This happens even out of combat. Characters often do shuffle out of the way, but some times they do not, causing very poor pathfinding choices. Other times even in wide open area's, NPC's take very poor choices when navigating tight corridors. Sometimes I believe it's due to enemies blocking the path.

    An example is at the Gnoll Stronghold. From one side of the map if you select to walk across the entire map to the bridge (2x3 === formation), one character takes a high road and the other takes a low road, neither leads to the bridge. I've also seen it in caves where characters go out of the way because their path is blocked by a party member.

    Another example is at the Firewine Bridge area.I was in the section with the Ogre Mage and click up by the dungeon entrance. 5 of the NPC's walked up there, the other one walked strait towards the cursor, and hit the wall, without even trying to find a way up until after they came to a complete stop.

    A really good place to test is in the Firewine Dungeon. It is very erratic. Sometimes they can't get around more than a few corners without getting stuck, specifically when you do a full map click. Other time full map walks work. I think unseen, respawned enemies being in the path really effect this.

    Post edited by bigdogchris on
    klatu
  • klatuklatu Member Posts: 108
    edited December 2012
    @Avenger_teambg
    NPCs getting blocked by enemies, especially large ones (Golems, etc...) makes perfect sense. The issue is with friendly/neutral creatures blocking doorways/each other.
    It can be a pain the rear to have to wait until some NPC randomly walks away from the only exit. Fallout 2 had a similar problem, but there you actually had a "shove" option with which NPCs could be promted to take a few steps away, at the very least.
    @bigdogchris' suggestion seems like the most intuitive way of solving the issue.

  • DecrepitDragonDecrepitDragon Member Posts: 120
    I too have had pathing issues, though, strangely, not of the type described here.

    Imagine, if you will, that you have entered a map, at the lower left corner. You then proceed north, to the top left corner, revealing the map as you go. Followed by a trip east, to the top right corner, and lastly, a leisurely jaunt south, to the bottom right corner.

    To finish this pattern, since the fog of war has been removed already, you simply click in the lower left corner, where your mighty adventure started, just a few moments ago. . . .

    . . . and the entire party starts to retrace its steps, along its previous route. And confusion reigns.

    The pathing AI, seems to refuse clearing the fog of war, and sets path nodes accordingly. Strangely, these nodes are usually dotted around the shortest possible route along the already revealed path. At this point though, the AI seems to decide that the FoW isn't all that scary afterall, and can start revealing a little more map as the group retraces a slightly tighter line back around the map.

    I can reproduce this effect in almost any map area, and with only the thinest line on FoW between my party and their destination, and they will still try to walk around the FoW if I instruct them to move by clicking beyond it.

    A small but frustrating bug. Also, I have tried various levels of Path Search Nodes in the .ini, and even tried things like "Hugterrain"=1 etc. Nothing seems to help. Anyone got any ideas?

  • AsthnerAsthner Member Posts: 83
    That’s always was how the pathfinding worked: clearing the FoW was manual, automatic pathing always plotted the nodes through accessible *known* terrain. ;)

    Avenger_teambg
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