[Request] Remove mirroring from BG2 animations

AndreaColombo

Originally posted on /r/FriendsOfBaldursGate.

It's not a mistery that I love BG1 animations and paperdolls most of all, and nothing would make me happier than to see them be made standard in BG:EE with full dual-wielding support. However, Trent Oster has made it clear that the source art assets for BG1 are lost forever, so the chances of BG:EE featuring dual-wielding BG1 animations are very slim (actually, as close to zero as it makes no difference).

Since BG2 animations will likely be used, I would like you to consider ditching the one thing that has always bugged me the most about them: the mirroring effect. It looks ridiculous and hideous. It is downright, undeniably and irretrievably horrible. Please, from the bottom of my heart, do remove the mirroring effect from those animations and make them headed just like BG1 animations were. BG1 animations would still look better and more imposing, imho, but at least BG2 animations would become acceptable.

Boaster

You talking about when at first he looks to be wielding shield left and weapon right to the reverse? Shield becoming right-hand and weapon becoming left-hand?

I noticed this, but it didn't ever really bother me. But I do support the change, if this is what you're implying.

William_Imm

Even better - try to get Nat to make new paperdolls for all the playable races. Even making tieflings and genasi would be good (at least for myself).

Dee

I'd like to see the animations revamped completely, with an eye for restoring the BG1 sensibility. If it's impossible to fix the mirroring, I'd support just redoing the PC/NPC character animations completely.

AndreaColombo

@Boaster and @Aosaw

That is precisely what I'm referring to. BG1 animations were headed, and that was part of their greatness. I would still like them better, but if mirroring could be removed from BG2 animations that would already be something.

AndreaColombo

@William_Imm

A separate request for paperdolls is on its way, also from /r/FriendsOfBaldursGate. I'll probably be able to post it on Sunday (tomorrow I'll be out of town all day).

Ward

Bump, I know this is old but I noticed that 1PP doesn't fix the mirror effect on Tutu. I think this thread should be seen.

AndreaColombo

@Ward - I'm afraid this falls within the scope of the things that can't be done due to the source art assets having been lost. The only way to get rid of mirroring is to make use of BG1 animations which, for the time being, implies giving up on dual-wielding.

Windsong

Sign me up for this one! I hate mirroring. I would equip a beautiful glowing weapon in my right hand, but would not see it very well b/c the mirroring kept switching the weapon to the rear of the avatar. I've also noticed that glowing weapons glow brighter when equipped on the left hand than on the right hand. Many probably did not notice this, but it was always a pet peeve of mine when playing BG2.

But I also love dual-wielding, so hopefully there will be way to keep it and also remove mirroring.

Ward

It seems that everything comes down to the missing animations for dual-wielding.

@AndreaColombo When it comes to creating new animations for dual-wielding, does this mean redrawing new animations for every race, armour, weapon, hair colour and clothing combination, but holding two swords? If so I can see how the work is probably not worth it right now.

AndreaColombo

@Ward - new weapon animations for the off-hand need to be created from scratch for every combination of class, race and sex. That is the biggest task. Off-hand attack animations can hopefully be derived from an adaptation of those from BG2, though the point will remain moot until we actually try that. I will have to look into these details if and when the time comes to work on it.

Mornmagor

Ah, how nostalgic. Back to the start of june, when we thought we would get revamped animations :P

Not for every class combination, for every avatar. But yeah. It's quite a bit of work -_-

Galactygon

I have an idea to remove mirroring for the PCs: use the off-hand weapon animations to create the mirrored weapon animations.

You'd then have to manually draw less mirrored animations - the shield and ranged weapon animations.

-Galactygon

AndreaColombo

@Galactygon - imho it would still be more worth it to do the missing animation work on BG1 animations, since they look so much better regardless of mirroring (though of course mirroring is truly unsighty).

Galactygon

There's possibly less work involved if they decided to keep the BG2 animations:
drawing off-hand shields and ranged weapons (could some even be imported from BG1?)
vs
drawing every single dual-wieldable weapon (had they used BG1 animations)

-Galactygon

AndreaColombo

@Galactygon - the weapon animations currently used for the main hand in BG1 animations can be flipped and repositioned to create the off-hand weapon animation, thus leaving only exotic weapons (katana, scimitar, wakizashi and ninja-to) to be manually drawn

FrozenDervish

In their sticky they state they will not change or fix the mirroring although it would be nice if it were fixed.

Galactygon

In BG2, the character animations are set up so that when they attack, they appear to swing with both hands (compare CIFC4A1.bam in both games), while in BG1 the character animations swing with one hand which does not look good even if you manage to paste and then manually align the weapon animations.

I see why the developers chose not to tackle dual-wielding with BG1 animations - they would have to redraw everything from scratch.

-Galactygon

AndreaColombo

Dual-wielding BG1 animations is going to happen. Mark my words. It's going to happen.

Eventually.

Jarl

Even though the devs will not remove the mirroring, it would be great, if they could make the game work without mirrored animations, so modders will be able to do that job.
To be more precise: character-animtions (.bam) have 9 sequences now (S, SSW, SW, WSW, WNW, NW, NNW, N). So, it should be enabled, that the engine can also deal with 15 sequences (for the rest of directions).

Then we just need Erephine and that thing will get under way

And yes, AndreaColombo, Dual-Wielding BG1 animations should be enabled in the engine too. Again, the modders may do the job, the devs just have to make it possible...

dandy

I don't know, I always disliked the animations from BG1, it made it nearly unplayable for me, along with the lack of dual wielding

Ken

AndreaColombo said:

@Galactygon - the weapon animations currently used for the main hand in BG1 animations can be flipped and repositioned to create the off-hand weapon animation, thus leaving only exotic weapons (katana, scimitar, wakizashi and ninja-to) to be manually drawn

Have you tested this, or is it just theory? (Oh man, I want the BG1 animations so bad! I once offered 55 $ to anyone who could do it)

AndreaColombo

@Ken - it's what Miloch and I have been discussing before BG:EE was announced. We then stopped our talks to see whether BG:EE would be a game changer and how. I'm still dead set on making it happen, but there are still many moot points at present.