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[bug] Infinite gold and XP loopholes

LuneverLunever Member Posts: 276
edited November 2012 in Original BG2 Bugs
There have been 3 big loopholes in BG:

a) Gold loophole:

Current behaviour:
In many shops you can't sell stolen items. In some you can, like in the thieve guild. That is how it should be, after all it's the fence in the thieves guild. But, you can resteal there and resell stuff in the same gulld again over and over.

Expected behaviour:
I think stealing in the thieves guild should be very difficult at first, and just unavailable once you are the guildmaster yourself.

b) Spell learning XP loophole:

Current behaviour:
While it was important that some patch did introduce the option of deleting spells from the grimoire (so new players don't get overwhelmed with planning the next 20 character levels of spell selection in advance for their below INT 18 human wizard PC, you could get indefinite experience by deleting and relearning the same spell over and over.

Expected behaviour:
Somewhere in the character there should be stored, which spell he already had learned, even if deleted later on. For relearning such spells no XP should be generated.

c) Monster XP loophole
Current behaviour:
In Saradush you can't target the giant attackers beyond the city wall. But at the right position, the PC AI script can. You just select some ranged combat AI, stand on the right spot, and go away. Every 20 minutes you check whether no character got a catapult hit. Infinite experience ingame loophole.

Expected behaviour:
Monsters, that can be targeted only by AI scripts (but not by the player) should give 0 XP, and/or the AI should also not be able to target them.

Post edited by Balquo on
AndreaColomboConphantusSLNHvitrEbrithil
«1

Comments

  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,326
    I believe the first request in your post has already been put forth, though don't have a link handy.

  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 276
    edited June 2012
    Right, though I adress specifically stealing from your very own guild.

  • CadrosCadros Member Posts: 253
    Infinite exp loopholes are really not a priority, resting and then being attacked is one way of doing this if you are really keen, and it is always possible to just clua console up you xp instead, I can't see much value being gained from trying to address these minor issues.

    AntonFlauschigAlistuspalloTJ_Hooker
  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 276
    Resting and bein attacked will take ages to level you up. The XP loophole in Saradush will level you up incredibly quickly, so it needs to be adressed.

  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 276
    According to http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/415/deidre-and-joluv-bonus-merchants#latest there ist another infinite gold loophole:
    If you have Charisma 20 and Reputation 20 (which is well possible), some merchants (Shahuagin, Suldanesselar) sell items to you for a higher price than they buy items from you.

    CrevsDaak
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,563
    or you could just not use the loop hole, it can be avoided yes? :) , since this is bg 1, yes what you can do is kill ankhegs up the ying yang get 10 shells sell them seperately to taerum get 500 gold each, and you just got 975 xp each, and be max level with bagillions of gp, but at the same time you dont have to do that, just because you can do it doesnt mean you should, but thats just me i guess :)

    Mathuzzz
  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 276
    I wouldn't adress small exploits, just infinite ones. I'd prefer them to be fixed. Shouldn't be difficult to do.

    Senash
  • James_MJames_M Member Posts: 126
    For b) and c): Sorry mate, I think the above are there by design, so a player can experiment as desired. E.g. a player might want to "max out" on their first play through, but then realize that using the above opportunities for maximizing xp are not necessary and thus not use them on their 2nd play through.

    artificial_sunlight
  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 276
    Nope, they are bugs. Deleting spells came with a later patch only and was not originally intended, and the giants are deliberately designed untargetable, the AI scripts just don't take it into account.

    ElectricMonkUlfgar_Torunn
  • SenashSenash Member Posts: 405
    edited July 2012
    Spell deleting was intended. Later on with a patch, but that proves it even more that they intended to make it so :) And it does cost quite some money. Therefore it's not really an exploit, since it cost you resources to gain XP. Sometimes it's good to get some XP boost from the scrolls you got and you know that you will never use. Also, if you don't have 17 or 18+ INT, you dont have a 100% chance of learning the spell.
    The thieving thing does suck, since you basically get money for free.
    But on the other hand, they are exploits. If you want to play the game as intended and have fun, don't use them. If you want to get OP and whack everyones head of without breaking a sweat, well... your choice...

    Post edited by Senash on
    sarevok57artificial_sunlightCrevsDaak
  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 276
    @James_M @Saresh @sarevok57
    b) would only be minor if a) is fixed, lest infinite gold can be converted to infinite XP.
    c) is a plain AI scripting bug.

    Aside from that I can't follow your line of argumentation, for if I did, I had to ask for an XP-free level-up button - after all, no one has to press it.

    Avenger_teambg
  • 10thLich10thLich Member Posts: 99
    @Lunever
    You're obviously missing the fact fact that none of it matters, because random encounters provide all the infinite gold and xp you'll ever need, if one's patient enough.

    10th

    CrevsDaak
  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 276
    edited July 2012
    @Senash: Spell deleting was intended, yes. The intention was, that you don't have to pre-plan your entire 9 spell levels before character creation. The XP loophole was a side-effect, I don't believe it was intended.

    @10thLich: For XP by random encounters you have to do something. For the Saradush loophole you position your characters and while you drink 2 or 3 cups of coffe, you characters rise up fast! My vote is to stuff that loophole. The rest is up to the devs.

    Post edited by Lunever on
    KienaBhryaenUlfgar_Torunn
  • MooseChangerPatMooseChangerPat Member Posts: 148
    Aww, but I love buying 600 freedom scrolls from the special adventurers mart. It actually gives me some sort of purpose for earning all that crummy gold. Besides, I still didn't reach the XP cap after doing that and every other quest in the game :/ But maybe that was because I took Sarevok in TOB? Anyways, I don't think the scroll thing seriously hurts the gameplay that badly.

    If people seriously wanted, they could just keep importing new mages to teach the spells to in multiplayer. People will almost always find a way to exploit the game to get XP, so why bother with the ones that take the players hours that they could have been spending on you know... playing. If they want to waste their time writing freedom scrolls or shooting fire giants, why not just let them? It's their loss in the long run, and some people get a kick out of doing it.

    Personally, I can go either way on the matter. Although I would like to see some more things you can sink your gold into should they get rid of the scroll exploit. I usually have something like 200,000 by the end of SOA and 2,000,000 by the end of TOB. Maybe implement some sort of super ridiculous weapon or equipment that has to be bought for that much? Of course, then you can run into the problem of such an expensive equipment being able to be sold for extravagant amounts too.

    sarevok57CrevsDaak
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,563
    @MooseChangerPat actually i like that idea of having say a weapon that costs 1 000 000 gold, and a piece of armor that costs 1 000 000 gold, because then it would be worth while to get, and maybe make it so once you buy it, you cant sell it, plus i guess it wouldnt really matter because items always sell for less than when you buy except for the smuggler's cave, but then again if the whole reason of having 2 million gold is to buy those 2 items, why would you need more gold? spite? world records? and as you said all these exploits, require effort and take away from actually playing the game, and people as you said will always find exploits anyway, so if they wish to exploit let them if not, they wont, plus i dont know any eploit out there that you can exploit with having a turbo mouse botton pressing 2 times a second then having your coffee table on that button then going to bed and waking up the next morning with millions of gold and or XP, so unless something like that exists i would say take that out, but everything else is fine in my book

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,052
    Just to add to the selling items/stealing items at the Thieves Guild (which needs to be fixed).

    If you sell a depleted wand/rod to them, not only can you steal it back but it also comes fully charged.

  • MooseChangerPatMooseChangerPat Member Posts: 148
    edited August 2012
    Thank you @sarevok57 :D Glad to see somebody else agrees with me on this too.

    I'm pretty sure that's not a glitch. It's supposed to get charged, otherwise they would barely make any money selling it. I mean, without shopkeepers being able to charge wands that really ruins the usefulness of the wand pedestals in Irenicus' dungeon. I'm fairly certain that was all actually by design with the wand charging. Or like the necklace of missiles or whatever item it is you need charged. Keep in mind you must also pay extra to actually buy the thing back thanks to all the charges.

    sarevok57GemHoundCrevsDaak
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,052
    @MooseChangerPat
    Understand that. It was more to illustrate the fact that by stealing from the Thieves Guild you are not only getting free money but also unlimited charges of wands (Resurrection/Cloud Kill/Monster Summon wands spring to mind).

    CrevsDaak
  • MooseChangerPatMooseChangerPat Member Posts: 148
    Oh. So keeping the charges thing good, keeping it so you can sell it and steal it over and over bad. Why not simply make it so that they don't buy wands? They have that kind of thing with some stores anyways.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,944
    I know you posted this like 2 months ago I just wanted to point something out. You can also use the spellcaster attack ai script to target the fire giants with spells as well as range attacks (after the spells have been extinguished). From what I saw this mostly turned out to be magic missiles and horrid wilting. Personally I see it as being too slow a loophole to be worthwhile to fix, even with haste on party members with ranged weapons.

    CrevsDaak
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,563
    ah never knew that the wands got recharged by doing that, probally because i never use wands :)

  • MooseChangerPatMooseChangerPat Member Posts: 148
    You should try it sometime @sarevok57, I usually use rods of resurrection as potions of heal since they don't exist, and resurrection completely heals you. Damn useful when your about to lose your main character. And don't even get me started on BG1 wand of monster summoning or the wand of cloudkill xD

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,563
    ah yes, i did lie, in bg1 i use wands of monster summoning because they are unfair as hell and i used wands of fireballs, but in bg2, never used them, partially because i dont play those no reload games so if my guys die i can just use that wonderful -L- key and then a quantom anomolly happens and everyone is back to normal, so in essence, the L key is like mass heal i would think :)

  • masteralephmasteraleph Member Posts: 53
    sarevok57 said:

    ah yes, i did lie, in bg1 i use wands of monster summoning because they are unfair as hell and i used wands of fireballs, but in bg2, never used them, partially because i dont play those no reload games so if my guys die i can just use that wonderful -L- key and then a quantom anomolly happens and everyone is back to normal, so in essence, the L key is like mass heal i would think :)

    I only use them at the very beginning, against the Den of the Seven Vales crew. Position melee characters around the wizard, use wand of monster summoning to surround Mencar Peeblecrusher (won't turn him hostile), then lightning wand the imp. Time it right and he and the wizard both fall, leaving enough time to kill the barbarian before Mencar Peeblecrusher gets clear of the monsters surrounding him.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,563
    i like using the animate dead spell and summoning 5 skeletons ( if i can) those skeletons are using +2 clubs/ and or maces plus that wand is it monster summoning 1 or 3 in bg 2? because the monster summoning 1 monsters smell like doo-doo paste

  • MooseChangerPatMooseChangerPat Member Posts: 148
    I think it was 3, although it might be 2. I seem to recall getting ettercaps and ogres though, and those are level 3s.

    sarevok57
  • lordkimlordkim Member Posts: 1,063
    we need something to spend all the gold on !

  • artificial_sunlightartificial_sunlight Member Posts: 584
    For a, b and c I always use ShadowKeeper. Its mutch quiker en just as fair.

    And if you are defending Saradush you deserve the XP

  • DeathKnightDeathKnight Member Posts: 93
    These are not bugs, but very convenient and extremely useful glitches! You can have infinite money by using multiplayer, importing characters with loaded inventories, sell everything, save game, reload, import them anew, rinse and repeat. If you do not like, you can avoid using. Also, the xp loopholes are fine the way they are. In order to perform them, you need to know in detail what to do exactly; you cannot accidentally max yourself, if you are not aiming in it from the very start! There are players who use and enjoy glitches. If you do not, though, simply avoid usage, do not demand enforced destruction of other people's bags of tricks!

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