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Do monks seem extremely lackluster in BG EE?

EndranceEndrance Member Posts: 17
in Archive (General Discussion)
It feels like they're forced to go one handed weapon with scimitar and steal a scimitar from drizzt just to keep up.

Comments

  • AndrasteAndraste Member Posts: 78
    Low-level monks are pretty terrible. The class was never intended to be in AD&D in the first place - it was only included in BG2 because Third Edition was coming out. (You can tell that Barbarian, Monk and Sorcerer were late additions from the lack of any class-specific content or NPCs of those classes.) Then add to that the fact that it was never previously included in BG1 at all, and thus never balanced for low levels.

    I'm still happy to be playing with Rasaad, mind you, and it does get better as you go. He's going to be great in BG2. Meanwhile, I'm hoping that someone comes up with a mod that buffs up monks in EE a bit.
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Also, I hope to have special kits for monks like:
    -monks that do elemental damages
    -monks that do additional status effects (cause slow/feeblemind/blindness/fear/doom statuses,etc)
    -ninja monk (specialize in darts, throwing daggers)
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 638
    Imo, monks are quite crap in Bgee, at least Rasaad is. I tried keeping him around just to see his content, but he's so crap that I actually prefer Khalid over him.
  • AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
    Yeah, he isnt as tough as a straight up fighter, but I am having a lot of fun with Rasaad. Just employ his strengths for instance agaisnt archers and mages. He is doing pretty well in my party =)
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    I played a Monk in BG2 and they are very strong. The problem seems to be they don't improve much until level 9 or 10. Eventually they begin getting a crazy high ac, thac, immunities, and high magic resistance. None of this is possible in BG EE though. The level cap is to low.
  • markthesharkmarktheshark Member Posts: 57
    Rasaad has died a lot in my party. But, he is pretty useful for running up to archers and making them switch to melee weapons. With the wakizashi +1 and single weapon style, I have an OK AC 1 by 4th level. It would be better if I could find some bracers of ac 5 for him.
  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    Khyron said:

    Imo, monks are quite crap in Bgee, at least Rasaad is. I tried keeping him around just to see his content, but he's so crap that I actually prefer Khalid over him.

    Ha. Well at least if BG2:EE goes ahead then we can possibly look forward to him being bad ass in that.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    You should be using stealth a lot with a monk in BG:EE. Stealth, stun attack, then attack.

    They are never powerhouses in BG1, though. That just isn't in the cards for them.
  • VukiVuki Member Posts: 36
    AHF said:

    You should be using stealth a lot with a monk in BG:EE. Stealth, stun attack, then attack.

    How stealth is working in BG1? Am I right that Hide in Shadows more important than Move Silently? If I stop moving when program regenerates the stealth success then only Hide in Shadows is used?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Hide in Shadows and Move Silently are equally important. In fact, the way that they work is that the scores are added together, and then divided by two.

    It's not a very elegant solution to the "stealth is too easy" problem that existed in BG1, but that's how it works. You can invest only in one and not the other and you'll be just fine.
  • AlexRmFAlexRmF Member Posts: 20
    I think monks and Kensais can run into trouble in BG:EE because they don't have all the nice abilities which come at higher levels and turn them into powerhouses (increased movement speed and weapon speed, low THAC0, etc.). My suggestion to the devs would be to create some special artifacts for the special classes of the game that would help them better adapt to the the fact they cannot wear armor (for me BG1 was the armor game... the lower you AC, the better your chance to survive in the world). In BG2 you can clearly see some special equipment for the special classes and this balances their "can't wear armor" weakness.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    There is equipment already for kensais, etc. The shield amulet gives them a very good AC. Potions of defense, invulnerability, etc. give them studly AC's. Spirit armor is a renewable resource, etc.

    Kensais are plenty viable already, IMO.
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Andraste said:

    The class was never intended to be in AD&D in the first place - it was only included in BG2 because Third Edition was coming out.

    I'm just going to throw this one here because I love to look all smart with obscure knowledge, but monks actually were around in the first edition. They were still kind of bad on early levels, though.
  • AlexRmFAlexRmF Member Posts: 20
    AHF said:

    There is equipment already for kensais, etc. The shield amulet gives them a very good AC. Potions of defense, invulnerability, etc. give them studly AC's. Spirit armor is a renewable resource, etc.

    Kensais are plenty viable already, IMO.

    If you compare that to a normal fighter in a Full-plate, I'm not so sure... let's not forget this is the game of ranged weapons and the Kensai can't use any of them... so a THAC0 enhancing piece of equipment would be very handy because they have to kill things fast and not get hit too much
    Same deal with the Monk (these are my 2 favorite classes in BG2)
  • BigityBigity Member Posts: 98
    Chow said:

    Andraste said:

    The class was never intended to be in AD&D in the first place - it was only included in BG2 because Third Edition was coming out.

    I'm just going to throw this one here because I love to look all smart with obscure knowledge, but monks actually were around in the first edition. They were still kind of bad on early levels, though.
    Yes, but the BG monks are clearly based on the 3rd edition monks, right down to the names of the abilities.

    I mean, bards were around in 1st too, but they are nothing like 2nd edition bards.
  • WulfyWulfy Member Posts: 32
    I feel like the lack of ranged weapons is a MUCH stiffer penalty than in BG2, as far as a Kensai is concerned. I rolled a Half-orc Barbarian and a Half-orc Kensai, and the Barbarian is kicking butt and taking names, longbow and two-hander. The Kensai? Well, he's got a katana, and some nifty boots of arrow-dodging, but he's just not in the same league.

    DEFINITELY not armour-wise.

    In a game where the first two hits can mean the difference between glorious victory and ignominious reload, that's fairly hefty. Heck, it can take me two hits just to get to the guy and start hitting his face.
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    Ranged weapons were kind of overpowered in BG1. BG2 is where melee caught up and eventually took over.
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498
    Is the Kensai still a beast with the thrown variants of melee weapons?
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2012
    Moomintroll said:

    Is the Kensai still a beast with the thrown variants of melee weapons?

    Yes. He gets all the bonuses applied to, say, a certain magical returning axe.
    AlexRmF said:

    AHF said:

    There is equipment already for kensais, etc. The shield amulet gives them a very good AC. Potions of defense, invulnerability, etc. give them studly AC's. Spirit armor is a renewable resource, etc.

    Kensais are plenty viable already, IMO.

    If you compare that to a normal fighter in a Full-plate, I'm not so sure... let's not forget this is the game of ranged weapons and the Kensai can't use any of them... so a THAC0 enhancing piece of equipment would be very handy because they have to kill things fast and not get hit too much
    Same deal with the Monk (these are my 2 favorite classes in BG2)
    Come on...

    18 Dex + 2 AC kensai bonus + boots of avoidance + shield amulet + ring of protection +1 =

    -3 AC versus melee weapons (4 AC - 4 Dex - 2 kensai - 1 ring)
    -10 AC versus missile weapons (2 AC - 4 Dex - 2 kensai - 1 ring -5 boots)

    With a potion of defense or potion of invulnerability:

    -7 AC versus melee weapons
    -12 AC versus missile weapons

    This isn't max protection either since you can get some additional items (like ring of protection +2, Drizzt's sword, etc.) as well as buffs. Spirit armor, barkskin, etc. are also available for people to buff you along with protection from evil, defensive harmony, bless, chant, etc.

    Anyone who can't survive this isn't trying very hard, IMO. The kensai with a shield amulet = a fighter with same stats with platemail versus melee, = 1 better than fighter with full plate versus missile weapons, and adds immunity to magic missiles.

    Now I can get behind a magic item for monks like some gauntlets that enhance unarmed combat but the idea that kensai needs extra special magic items isn't one I buy off on. I did a run with a halfling kensai using a two-handed sword on BGT leading up to this release on hard difficulty with SCS and didn't have any problems keeping him alive and that was with BG2 version of grandmastery and a 17 strength.
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