Dual classing to fighter with 18 strength

csuzw

If you dual class to fighter and have 18 strength does it change to 18/?? or does it stay as it was? If it does change, is ?? set at character creation time or at dual class time?

Bigity

It stays 18 IIRC.

valky

stays that way..but there is a book anyway to raise it to 19 in your case. So it doesn't matter if you only have 18 or 18/xx as in both cases you can reach 19.

(set at character creation)

sandmanCCL

Thing about fighter is it's always best to dual-class AWAY from fighter, rather than into it. I can't think of a situation where this isn't the case.

valky

me neither
Though I can imagine in BG:EE(1) a true-class fighter is worth a try, but not in any other game (IWD2/BG2...not talking about NWN2 ^^ EPIC Divine Might ...YES!)

*uhm* yet my fighter has to stay true up to at least lvl7 :P gives me the 1.5 ApR and checked just as of today, that I still can achieve GM in BG2 (currently freshly installed with no mods) after the dual-class becomes active. Yet am pretty sure, in my last game with tweaks/fixes/whatever installed, I had to be lvl9 - else I was stuck on the 4th point and I couldn't spent 5 points in the char-creation neither.

ZanathKariashi

Bare in mind, being able to put additional points in a prof after dual-classing is an engine exploit that creeped in, in BG2. Baldur's Gate 1 wouldn't let you do that.

valky

Ah..does make sense; I really don't mind being lvl 9 for switching or get the xp in BG2..I might lose 1 highlvl cleric spell otherwise (OMG!!!). But I'll push my BG2 with tweaks and fixes anyway...was just an experiment how vanilla'd react. Vanilla BG2 lets you create a fighter with GM right away....given that it is only lvl7..that's plain stupid.

Crom Feayr-wise I don't care about having slightly less spells :P

(guess, that's the reason that my fighter->thief had to be 9, else I was stuck on 4 points)

ZanathKariashi

Never really saw a reason for Crom to be honest, except for a wizard slayer who can't use str belts. Especially in a party it uses up TWO very valuable str increasing items just to make a single superior item (the on hit bonus is kind of meh, since there's not really that many uses for it...troll killing..that's about it (which is easy anyway, especially with hte FoA)..clay golems would die in one hit anyway (again with the FoA), and there's only two ettin in the whole game, one of which requires you to be a paladin to fight). Party-wise it's more effective to just spread the str items around to everyone (even ranged characters, as sling of seeking, any of the returning axes, daggers (the Firetooth (dagger) is especially nasty) or hammers, and the sling of Everad add your str bonus to their damage)

Single character-wise....it could work, I suppose...but a fighter is gonna have thac0 to burn and depending on race and alignment, there's not much difference damage-wise between 22 and 25 (imported evil half-orcs could potentially get a raw 25 str). Clerics of course don't need it at all, 19 str is enough to hit 25 with DUHM which you'll have the +6 version by the time you get everything to make Crom), vs sacrificing an extra attack from using a speed weapon off-hand instead.....now...if you could throw the Crom Faeyr like the pnp version...that would change things a little.

jscohen

sandmanCCL said:

Thing about fighter is it's always best to dual-class AWAY from fighter, rather than into it. I can't think of a situation where this isn't the case.

I've heard of people dual-classing Assassins to Fighter, but it's a highly specialized sort of build for a very specific play style. And in any event, such a dual is usually done at a very high level anyway, so it's not so relevant for BG1.

ZanathKariashi

ha

valky

@zana
I'll dual to cleric, that gives me not that much of an option for a decent weapon :P (there are a lot of str items to decline the exorbitant costs to craft that item)

maces in bg2? lawl
FoA....dunno, usually give it to one of my fighters

WHy should I roll a 18/18/18 char if am supposed to be in the background with a throwing dagger?

ZanathKariashi

Because you're dealing the same damage at range as if you're in melee with the same number of attacks, except the enemy isn't able to fight back if they're melee...win/win.

IMoD is nice...but that's really the only one that jumps to mind....Storm star is supposedly nice, but I've never actually used it since I already have all my ideal weapons by then.

FoA is the F/C's best friend. As you say, there's not a whole lot of options, vs anyone else who could use all those awesome bladed weapons the F/C can't. And the 25 str is wasted on a part cleric because of DUHM...and FoA deals more damage..is faster (which matters since the slow effect reduces the enemies attack speed to 10 (well 10 base, and then 1 speed faster for each attack they have beyond 1), amongst other things) and it's on hit effect works on EVERYTHING....

valky

I always forget about the slow-effect, which is pretty nifty specially against harder enemies.
But you are right about the girdle, as even with the lower str. the difference is minor and the additional elemental damage is huge.

Else, I can't have another piercing damage character in my planed party but as a backup weapon for sure (or sling...as it's limited to cleric). Yet with those stats and all that fancy armor in soa/tob my AC is supposed to be pretty low and am 'forced' to use the Gaxx-ring too to overcome the free-action effect of the flail. Haven't checked yet if it's gotten fixed or tweaked by some mod.
And never tried Storm Star myself, though chainlightning can be sometimes be very helpful...

Just 'changed' the prof points, and it's not really cheating

ZanathKariashi

I never really bother with the +5 version...the free-action just ruins it too much. Which is a shame since the +5 version doubles the elemental damage.

Helias

sandmanCCL said:

Thing about fighter is it's always best to dual-class AWAY from fighter, rather than into it. I can't think of a situation where this isn't the case.

There is one major exception: the dual-class from Swashbuckler to fighter. In BG2 you would do the dual class late, in BG1 early.

I dual class immediatly, i.e. at level 2. This results in a fighter that is clearly superior:
- Has AC-1
- Has two more weapon proficiencies than a pure fighter (the swashbuckler build allows for 2 points of dualwielding at the start e.g.)
- Can open all the locks in the game! (I give my Swashbuckler lockpicking 65% and add 25% at level2)

Disadvantages:
- Slightly lower HP's
- Starts at 18 strength, not 18+, but as said higher, with the Tome of Strength they all arrive at 19.

This makes for an extremely efficient fighter. A SB/fighter level 3 e.g. could already have 3 points in two wepaon style, 2 in a melee weapon and 2 in a ranged weapon. A pure fighter would need to be at level 9 to reach this.

moody_mage

It's not really superior - the strength tome isn't available until quite late on in the game meaning you'll be saddled with an inferior to hit and damage modifier for quite some time.

Of course afterwards then you have more of a point.

Helias

The lower hit and damage for the first half of the game is clearly compensated by the two extra weapon proficiencies alone, wouldn't you say? Not to mention the other advantages.

csuzw

My original plan was to dual class a Swashbuckler at 5 to Fighter. With a human with 18 dexterity you can get Open Lock and Find Traps to something like 90 and 85. Dexterity Tome will improve that to 95/90 which should be enough for every lock and majority of traps in the game. Meaning no need to take another thief (I know they're plentiful in BG but not so in BG2 and I don't really like any of non-good thieves in BG anyway which doesn't fit with my evil plans). Anyway chose a different plan in the end.

Helias

@CSUZW
That's not a bad plan. At level 5 your AC would have gone down another point. But the drawback is that you would have to go through a large part of the game - before your fighter hits level 6 - without a thief at all.

csuzw

@Helias Ultimately that's 1 of the main reasons I didn't choose it, dual classing just doesn't seem that fun, even if it does eventually produce some ridiculous combinations. Still dualling from thief at level 5 to Fighter is not a particularly long period - 32k xp in total and there are plenty of thieves early on in BG anyway that you can put up with for that period.