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LOB reward

foma_mgppufoma_mgppu Member Posts: 115
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
Hi, all!
I am watching some dude on YT playing BG:EE on LOB difficulty, and seeing as he struggles with it, I have dicided to give it a go and import my toon, that just finished SoD.
While LOB seemed challenging at first (those rats, duh...) then I came to a conclusion, that it is simply not worth the time or the effort. And there is only one reason to this: it is not rewarding enough. What do you get out of kiting a lone wolf for half an freaking hour? Measly 65xp, that is what. So, no XP bonus, no gold bonus, why bother?
I searched the Internet, but seemed to fail at finding some XP bonus mod for LOB difficulty. Maybe you can advise me on that?
I'll be mighty grateful.

Comments

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    edited August 2018
    the ONLY purpose for doing LoB mode is to get the achievement on steam or if you are a bored masochist, the BG series is not balanced at all for a LoB type mode

    this mode was imported over from IWD, with their HoF mode, but unlike IWD which actually promotes this mode and is balanced for it, BG is not

    plus giving enemies absurd amounts of HP i find is boring and tedious as hell, so don't fret if you don't find it fun, a lot of people don't
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 711
    edited August 2018
    I'm not trying to be judgmental but there seems to be a difference between generations of gamers and LOB mode seems to appeal to people like me. I don't understand the constant need for treats and rewards. I don't see any appeal from having a badge that says you beat a game or pre ordered a game. I get no satisfaction from little participation rewards or steam achievements. The point of LOB mode is to be challenging for people who have played the game to death. If you had to kite a wolf around for a half an hour than this isn't the difficulty mode for you. The only point in LOB mode is to make the game more challenging. It does make the game more challenging and so it serves to make experainced gamers use their knowledge of the game system more in depth. It actually forces strategy where there was none before.
  • foma_mgppufoma_mgppu Member Posts: 115
    the_sextein said:

    I'm not trying to be judgmental but there seems to be a difference between generations of gamers and LOB mode seems to appeal to people like me. I don't understand the constant need for treats and rewards. I don't see any appeal from having a badge that says you beat a game or pre ordered a game. I get no satisfaction from little participation rewards or steam achievements. The point of LOB mode is to be challenging for people who have played the game to death. If you had to kite a wolf around for a half an hour than this isn't the difficulty mode for you. The only point in LOB mode is to make the game more challenging. It does make the game more challenging and so it serves to make experainced gamers use their knowledge of the game system more in depth. It actually forces strategy where their was none before.

    @the_sextein Yeah, I get you, m8. You are sure right.
    And being more expirienced played, maybe you could point me to YT chanell of pro BG player(s) with vast knowledge of game mechanics, who does not struggle on LOB with freshly made character and does not have to rely on kiting enemies at all. Because I find no one of such skill.
  • foma_mgppufoma_mgppu Member Posts: 115
    @sarevok57 Thanks, I figured as much.
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 711
    edited August 2018
    Honestly I wouldn't know, I don't watch other gamers play games unless I am looking for a tip on a specific boss enemy. Many users here play LOB mode. My point above is that we play games because they are fun to play. Difficulty modes are only fun if you need more difficulty to keep the game interesting. If you find a difficulty mode too challenging and would only be willing to force yourself through it for a reward then you are spending a bunch of time not really enjoying the game in exchange for a little badge that says you are an elite player. It's a game, I don't take pride in being good at it. I do however, like talking about difficult situations and how to overcome them. My last playthrough of the game, I played it on LOB mode with every difficulty enhancing option from the SCS difficulty mod installed and the improved ascension boss battles. I found the entire game to be challenging but fun.

    You can look in the BG2 forums for the final ascension battle topic to see my tactics for beating the final battle of the game with the ascension mod installed.

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/71127/last-fight-in-ascension#latest I used a FMT for that run and a full party of six in game NPC adventurers with no cheating. I would also check the challenges thread that is sticky, where many gamers play LOB mode even solo and some of them post playthroughs on youtube. Go to the general discussion forum and look at the top of the forum. There is a topic labeled challenges and playthroughs. I will admit that most solo gamers are gonna have to avoid battles and kite a lot. However, on playthrough with a full party I didn't have to kite very much at all.

    Contrary to what many believe, a good balanced party that is optimally equipped at all times and rested well can handle most battles without kiting. There are a few exceptions where I had to back pedal a few times but even that can be avoided if you know the game terrain and choose when to take on certain areas of the game based on your own progression. Even then, most of those situations were because of the boosted spawns and enemy grouping from the SCS mod. LOB is certainly not balanced for a blind playthrough even if you have beaten the game previously on insane a year ago. It does require a lot of knowledge and memory from previous playthroughs in combination with a full understanding the game rules.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,317
    foma_mgppu said:

    @the_sextein Yeah, I get you, m8. You are sure right.
    And being more expirienced played, maybe you could point me to YT chanell of pro BG player(s) with vast knowledge of game mechanics, who does not struggle on LOB with freshly made character and does not have to rely on kiting enemies at all. Because I find no one of such skill.

    I don't know about videos, but if you're really interested in how to use strategies to be able to make progress in a LoB game then you could take a look at this thread. That has a ton of information about how you can succeed in a no-reload LoB game with solo characters, even using the additional difficulty of the SCS difficulty mod.
  • foma_mgppufoma_mgppu Member Posts: 115
    @the_sextein I don't want to argue as it is pointless and not fun at all, so, not to argue, but to perhaps clarify a little.

    I tried LOB with my toon imported right after SOD with all the items from BG1, so his AC was -10 and THACO 0. He did not have ANY trouble solo with enemies up untill the stopping point around chapter 3 after which I became simply bored. So, it is not challenge of the fight that I disliked in LOB but rather needles tediousness and length of the process which of itself had nothing to interest me with.

    Also, I personally do not think that giving enemies more HP is what makes a real challenge. I think that giving them (monsters that is) an upgraded AI, better understanding of tactics, and of team play could have been more advantageous and served as a much better challenge as with just pumping them with HP and APR and such.

    As of rewards I was speaking earlier, of course I did not mean Steam badges or achievents to be such. I am not an achievement hunter myself (it is also such a boring thing). What I meant is: LOB would be purposeful and be 100% justified TO ME (please, do not let us forget that we are talking about PERSONAL opinions) if its CHORE asnd BORE (so to speak) were compensated by giving players qually good amount of XP and/or gold for it.

    Last, but not least. I admire and truly respect players such as yourself who find fun and joy in overcoming seemingly impossible obstacles in videogames. I adore speedrunners who have the will and patience and determination to hone their skills for YEARS just to improve their PB for a fraction of second. But that is just NOT FOR ME. For my taste it is neither fun nor joy, whether I have to kite a lone wolf for half an hour with my newly created toon, or just wait yawning for the same amount of time while my super toon slices helpless ogre mage to a nice fillet.

    P.S. I would love very, very much to see how you play. No, really. I think I'd have learned a lot from you. Do you have a YT channel yourself, by any chance?
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 711
    edited August 2018
    No problems, I don't want a fight either. My opinions are my opinions and nothing else. I don't care how people play or what gives them enjoyment. I was just pointing out that I would not play something that I find tedious for a reward. Personally, I feel the game is meant to be played with a full party at level one from the get go. The reason why it wasn't hard with a solo character is because he was overpowered for the start of the game and then when you reached the middle chapters of the game you didn't have a party so it became unbalanced once again. LOB is going to make the fights last longer and if you only have 1/6th of the party members it will become very slow and tedious.

    I agree that the brute force approach to LOB mode is not as effective as more enemies with better AI. That is why I use SCS. Even SCS gets old if you play it enough which is why I use LOB on top of SCS. My skills in this game were not gained from trying to be good at the game. I played the game many times with a regular fighter before I raised the difficulty and then added SCS and then LOB and finally ascension with many different classes of character. It's the culmination of playing the game multiple times a year for 20 years and talking with a bunch of smart people on this forum. Even then, the only thing I am really impressed by is that the game can actually be beaten at such crazy levels of boosted difficulty. When I first started I never would have been able to comprehend how some of these battles could be beaten at this level. As for youtube, I don't have a channel. I used to have one but multiple companies threatened to sue me for using copyright music or making music videos with copyright content. I eventually canceled my youtube channel as a result.


    My only advice is that you should start the game at level 1 and pick up Imoen and anyone else that you can get your hands on. I used Xzar and Monty until I got to the friendly arm to pick up J&K. If you can't beat a fight then run away or if you have good memory, simply avoid it until later. Focus on fetch quests within the main areas that don't require fighting. I helped Misnc save his witch by gulping a potion of invisibility and then handing her one as well. We then snuck out of the knoll stronghold and I got the XP for saving her. Nobody had to die. When I was more powerful later on, I came back and steamrolled the stronghold for more money and XP. This sort of thinking will go a long way. Use stealth to find items of importance like the wand of paralyzation which will make most mages in BG1 feel like easy mode. The wand of monster summoning is even more powerful in LOB mode because of the boosted stats that summons get. ect.
  • foma_mgppufoma_mgppu Member Posts: 115
    @the_sextein Wow. Thanks for the advice.
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    If Legacy of Bhaal isn't to your liking, you might want to try my mod High Power Baldur's Gate. The mod greatly empowers almost all enemies in Baldur's Gate 1, mainly by giving them new abilities or permanent effects, rather than by giving them lots of hit points. You won't be able to rely on classic cheese tactics like kiting. Enemies give more experience, and you will get more unique items for slaying enemies and completing quests. Like in the Heart of Fury mode of Icewind Dale 2, many items are powered up.

    The mod also gives new powers to the protagonist and the NPC party members. Overall, the mod won't make the game that much more difficult (some parts of the game will be easier and some parts will be harder), but the challenging parts of the game will be challenging in much more interesting ways than in Legacy of Bhaal.

    Here's a screenshot of a battle in the mod:


    If you're interested, you can learn more about the mod or download it here.
  • foma_mgppufoma_mgppu Member Posts: 115
    @Grond0 I have not seen ScS and ascension mod. You say, they raise difficulty EVEN MORE? That is just bizzare. And solo, no-reload run with EVERYTHING on top of LOB? Good god.
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 711
    edited August 2018
    Also, have a mage use the spell "friends" on themselves and have them do the purchasing of goods for your party. This combined with a good rep will cut your costs in half. This will allow you to sell powerful wands and buy them back without breaking the bank. Wand spam is very useful in LOB mode, especially if you want to avoid kiting enemies. If you have 100 charges of paralyze and monster summon it will make things much easier with a party of six. You should have the meat shield and full damage potential to rip up even LOB and SCS boosted mobs. On singular powerful enemies. have Jahiera cast doom to lower the enemy saving throes and then have a mage cast blind to disable them. Then pick them off from a distance with bows. Later on, use greater malison to lower saving throes of entire mobs and cast web spells. Always use haste and make sure it hits your summons as well. The spell, slow is also a game changer for large mobs of enemies. Fireball spam isn't as good in LOB mode but if all characters have wands or necklaces you should be able to utilize fireball spam with some success. Arrows of detonation are absolutely killer but they should be saved for the toughest mob battles in the game.
  • foma_mgppufoma_mgppu Member Posts: 115
    @OlvynChuru Wow, thank you very much! I will definately try this mod. I am so interester and frankly... intrigued...
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