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What are bards for?

Their fighting ability is about the same as a thief, which is pretty bad...except that a fighter/thief multi or dual class is decent with a composite longbow. A level 9 fighter dual classing to a thief can get grandmastery in longbows which makes a huge difference.

They can wear chain, which is cool...except that you cant cast spells in armour anyway...and a fighter/mage can do the same thing, except better...

Bard song is pretty much useless when you have a level 1 cleric spell that does the same thing, and doesnt require you to have a party member stand around while using it.

Pickpockets is pretty much useless...about the only thing you really need it for in BG 1 is Algernon's cloak, which can be gotten by having a thief drink a potion of master thievery without putting any points into pickpockets.

Really, what are they meant to do that other classes cant do better?

Comments

  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 992
    Bards are like blue cheese : there are an acquired taste...
    ThacoBellCloutier
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Arctodus said:

    Bards are like blue cheese : there are an acquired taste...

    Or King Crab! Hard to get into, but delicious!
    Arctodus
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    Bards are supposed to be the filler class.
    The filler Thief without being a Thief.
    Filler Mage without being a mage.
    Filler warrior (Blade) without being a warrior.

    Instead of having another specialized character, or a multiclass character that eats double or triple the xp, you get a Bard that does a bit of both, freeing up resources for the rest of the classes.

    With a Bard you get the higher Lore I believe, while having Pick Pocket for when you need it without having to invest the skill points in a Thief and you get an utility mage, when your main mage can focus on other stuff.

    Plus their Bard song can be a decent little free boost.
    They don't belong in a party of four (Warrior/Thief/Priest/Mage), they're the fifth party member that supports the others.
    ThacoBell
  • CloutierCloutier Member Posts: 228
    Once I did a run of an elven male bard with Safana, Shar-teel, Viconia, Branwen and Imoen. As a slacker he didn't do anything but he enjoyed tremendously the show provided by the ladies.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    I do like my bard kits and mods There songs are really varied depending on what you want it to do.And PP's? I think I've added a few extra hundred thousand GP's to the game from selling and stealing in BG1. They are much more fun if you add both Song and Silence and Rogue Rebalancing to name a couple of mods. Those alone will allow thieves and bards their proper 2nd edition PnP 3 pip 2WS ability back in the game (blades start with three in that). It also revises PP rules and allows bards to talk their way out of failed attempts at pping or stealing from stores. Their HLA's are also more suited to their focus and sound and music.
    Bardic Wonders is a nice collection of kits as well.

    Travis Hansen's take on bards here, esp. those that want to focus on their songs for a group (or those with songs that summon creatures or charm):
    StummvonBordwehrThacoBell
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    Arctodus said:

    Bards are like blue cheese : there are an acquired taste...

    Or to unexpectedly find you you love it or just haven't had it paired properly. A friend of mine told me "I don't like blue cheese" and my response was "You sure eat a bunch of it at my house every thanksgiving and xmas." He had no idea it was in the appetizers I typically make at the holidays.

    I find they're that bit of everything from all the major classes, especially as a blade. Your spells are stronger than a mage's, you can use any weapon, and pick pocket. Even at higher levels, where you're thac0 and number attacks might hurt you, you get Tenser's Transformation and and Improved Haste. Bards take a lot of micro management but with buffs can do anything.
    ZaghoulArctodusThacoBell
  • PingwinPingwin Member Posts: 262
    At least in BG1, the main strength of the bard is using up all of those spare wands and scrolls which otherwise would just be hoarded in case you ever need them.

    I like to give Garrick longbow proficiency - he's not too bad as a backup archer once you've found the magic longbow. Aside from that, any difficult looking fight, he is using fireball or monster summoning wands.

    He gets better if you can find him some elven chain armour but even without that, scrolls and wands are so abundant that it doesn't really matter a great deal if he can't cast his own spells due to wearing armour. Even in that situation, he can be useful with Identify and Knock spells which you won't be casting in combat so temporarily removing his armour isn't an issue.

    There probably isn't a role for a bard if you have a small party, but if you are filling all six slots, then it becomes not so much a question of "is a bard good?" as "is there anyone else who can fill that sixth slot and bring more to the party that you've not already got?".
    ThacoBell
  • Question2Question2 Member Posts: 74
    Unless im missing something, bard song is described as only resist fear...nothing about luck scores...

    I dont know why you would feel the need to include a bard. A 4 man party covering fighter, cleric, mage and thief roles is more than enough for BG 1 and SOD.

    The bard cant fulfill the thief role due to not having access to all thief skills, so you still need a thief. They dont even make decent secondary fighters the way a cleric can. That basically means you got a mage with slightly better weapons and hp, but you still cant wear armor.

    If you could cast spells in armor without needing elven chainmail, then yea, bards might have a role. The problem is...fighter/mages (or a dual class) would be able to do the same, except having way better HP, THACO and proficiencies...

    The fundamental issue is that their niche (bard song) is replicated by a level 1 cleric spell....and since you pretty much need a cleric anyway (the game gets very annoying without one), they dont get anything special.

    IIRC pathfinder bards can fight and use bard song at the same time, which buffs the entire party with bonuses to attack and saving throws. Thats a useful niche. If AD&D bards were closer to that, they would have a clear role.
  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 654
    edited August 2018
    My advice? Try using Garrick I mean really using Garrick to his maximum potential, with wands, scrolls and mage spellbook and I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.

    Especially being able to cast mage spells as a 10th level caster in the later stages of the game is extremely useful - his magic missiles and chromatic orbs can be devastating.

    I love bards, but I hate blue cheese :)

    As for elven chainmail...well you don't really need it, magical defensive bracers are good enough, and they're fairly common in BG1 & 2.
    Post edited by Dharius on
    ThacoBellArctodus
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Question2 Unless you are on an old version, the standard bard song includes luck bonuses that increase with level. Its actually VERY good. No spell in the game can replicate it. An Bards don't replace your other classes, they supplement them. They fulfill a side of the thief kit, without using skill points. This frees up more skill points for your thief. With buffs, they CAN fill a secondary fighter role. Even better than a cleric even, if you use Tenser's. I actually tend to use Bards instead of mages, as they get access to all the necessary spells.

    "I dont know why you would feel the need to include a bard. A 4 man party covering fighter, cleric, mage and thief roles is more than enough for BG 1 and SOD."

    This is true. Its also true that you don't need a fighter, or a thief, or a cleric, or a mage, or any other class in the game. You don't even need a 4 man party, as any class can solo the game. You use a Bard because they fill multiple roles comparable to a multiclass but without the slower leveling. You use a bard because they are so flexible. You use a Bard because they are fun.
    Grond0Dharius
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    ThacoBell said:

    @Question2 Unless you are on an old version, the standard bard song includes luck bonuses that increase with level. Its actually VERY good. No spell in the game can replicate it.

    They're right though in that the luck hasn't been included in the class description. You have to look at your roll modifiers with the song off an on to confirm that it's there.
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