@sandmanCCL Your info on gaining HLA isn't correct. In my current playthrough (appr. 3.8 mill xp, that's 1.9 on the Druid part) Jaheira already has two Druid HLAs.
She can still get druid HLAs from her fighter levels, but it's a bad idea to pick up the spells because she'll only have a single 7th level spot til she hits 6 million total XP. So that basically leaves the shapeshifts and fighter HLAs. Earth Elemental is worth picking up so she can heal, but I don't see the need to pick up more than maybe just 1 of the spell HLAs.
I also want to point out that between 3 and 6 million XP, a fighter/cleric would gain 7 levels of cleric and therefore have 7 more HLAs than the fighter/druid.
So, I think we just had a misunderstanding of what I'm getting at. I personally don't think it makes sense you can pick up either of your class' HLAs if you're multiclassed. It'd make a lot more sense if you could only take fighter ones for your fighter levels or druid ones for your druid levels, etc.
I always take Jaheira, I once had Cernd, and I played twice as a Druid PC. I can't say I felt gimped at any time in the whole game, concerning the druid class, even between level 13 to 15. And even as a multiclass. I guess it seems to be more of a theoretical problem looking only on numbers and sheets. Actually playing this class feels very satisfying though. And throughout the game.
Oh and I wouldn't say Cernd is weak. Jaheira is just a bit more powerful :P But maybe I'm just a Jaheira fanboy .
I've used her a bunch of times, too. But her spellcasting side always felt really weak. Anomen absolutey rolled over Jaheria's usefulness in Throne of Bhaal. Up until then, they are about the same not counting the differences between druids and clerics.
She's good, but she tapers off for a really long time. I feel the other divine spellcasters are significantly better than she is through ToB.
@Amardarial: No need to be rude, man. You can disagree with a guy without throwing around loaded statements like, "Worst logic ever, so glad you don't get to make the decisions."
I always install the tweakpack component that gives Druids the Cleric's xp and spell progression table but:
By following this board I see that many people consider that the Druid's faster level progression is an advantage of the class, so I wouldn't like it to disappear. I think I'd prefer a Druid xp table where they would always be 1 level ahead of Clerics with the same amount of experience.
@Tanthalas that's why I always said BGEE should only focus on bug-fix, graphic/gui enhancements, engine improvements, etc.. Trying to mess too much with items, spells, kits, heavy SCS-like scripts and so on isn't a good idea. We modders worked on those things for YEARS and we are still finely tuning and balancing everything. They may be professionists, but they also have very very little time. Not to mention that, as you noticed, trying to please all players is almost impossible, and changing something of the original game (even in cases where it seems the obvious right choice) may actually not be welcomed by most players.
Others like you will still be able to use mods to tweak the game as they like, and I do think everyone would be much more happy if BGEE developers focus all their efforts on things we modders cannot do, rather than wasting their time trying to do something we're probably more prepared to do than themselves.
Personally I really like in BG2, that druid can summon elementals without control save. Pesky vampires get so much easier when let you a fire or two elementals clear the way.
Well if we are going in that direction, why follow 2nd rules at all? Lets just make more changes that further the game from what it was based off. *Shrugs* As for wanting pets added, never stated I did, simply stated your logic was flawed, did I come off harsh, probably, but I'm also tired of people being"Oh this is like WoW so it must be evil"
I would not be surprised if that mentality was why many games made since have been very lackluster overall.
if some sort of animal companion was added, I'd be perfectly fine with something along the lines of what Faldorn (Assuming I spelled that right) who can summon the Dread Wolf has, just a simple summons you can use when you need it, that or something similar to what Wizards egt with summon Familiar, but a animal instead of magical beast.
Don't get how the difficulty of the game has anything to do with what I said, not sure where you were going with that one.
Also last I checked Genre does kind of matter, otherwise it wouldn't exist.
ARPG plays different than CRPG which plays different than MMORPG, you might not care for the difference, but a great many do.
but whatever, my thoughts are just that, take them as you will.
@sandmanCCL Yea, your right. I've never been good with typed tone, tends to come off more harsh than intended.
Your judgement was too quick, because you didn't know (and still don't seem to understand) what my thought process was --
Permanent pets are something that Blizzard, after ~8 years of iterative development, never got quite right. They've been riddled with bugs, pathing problems, and balance issues for their entire history. *That's* what I was referencing. This has nothing to do with WoW being "evil." I know the game's reputation, that's why I made a small joke about it.
Anyway: What do you think the chances are that anyone would be able to implement permanent pets well in a game engine that's over ten years old? And in a game engine and UI that didn't originally support them?
You've broadened your definition so much it sounds like you're now talking about Totemic Druids. Summoned creatures are a different subject entirely.
Also, very simply: If you add a permanent pet, you increase the party's DPS in every fight at no cost. That would make the game easier. If you've ever run a smaller party and later moved to a larger one, that should be obvious.
Honestly, I liked the level drought Druid's get in BG2. Why do I need my PC or an NPC to level up all the time to have fun? Levelling up is just a bonus, it's not what I strive for. I like the role playing aspect, they kind of dip in power after an early surge, then break out with a crazy arsenal of high level spells.
Like someone said, I enjoy the levelling ten times more in 2nd edition than its 3rd edition counterpart. Levelling up at nearly all the same time is dry.
And like someone else said, I do agree that in multi-class terms, you should only gain access to the HLA of the class that's just levelled up, not both.
Uhh, i dont think there anything particularly wrong with Druid progression level. The main thing to remember is that Jaheira is not a druid. Much like Aerie is not a mage. They are multiclasses and thus level slow by design. So any perceived slowness is due to them being multiclasses. Druids get 6 level7 spells @3million xp. Thats not that bad. Aerie doesnt even get a single level9 spell until 6mio xp.
@Dragonspear >In the ORIGINAL baldur's gate there were no Scimitars
I know that, but are you saying Drizzt was added with TotSC? :P
One gamer made a mod where the wolves start off blue, since it broke her heart to always be attacked by them and constantly have to hear their whimpers at death. How's this for a new magic item:
This item is made from the furs of various animals, and gives off a strong scent to those nearby. As a result, any furred animals near a wearer of this cloak will regard them as just another resident of the forest and leave them be. In game terms, the wearer and partymembers are protected by a Santuary type effect. Wolves and Bears in the game will not attack the party unless attacked first. Once the protection is broken (by being covered in the scent of animal death), the protection will not reset until a map change.
Only wearable by Druids and Rangers. -------------------------------------------------
What would be really nice, but will only come in mods, if then, would be items that give bonuses while shapechanged. Items that give you mild regen, make your claws poisonous or make them plus weapons, give you an AC bonus, or other things.
Comments
I also want to point out that between 3 and 6 million XP, a fighter/cleric would gain 7 levels of cleric and therefore have 7 more HLAs than the fighter/druid.
So, I think we just had a misunderstanding of what I'm getting at. I personally don't think it makes sense you can pick up either of your class' HLAs if you're multiclassed. It'd make a lot more sense if you could only take fighter ones for your fighter levels or druid ones for your druid levels, etc. I've used her a bunch of times, too. But her spellcasting side always felt really weak. Anomen absolutey rolled over Jaheria's usefulness in Throne of Bhaal. Up until then, they are about the same not counting the differences between druids and clerics.
She's good, but she tapers off for a really long time. I feel the other divine spellcasters are significantly better than she is through ToB.
@Amardarial: No need to be rude, man. You can disagree with a guy without throwing around loaded statements like, "Worst logic ever, so glad you don't get to make the decisions."
Others like you will still be able to use mods to tweak the game as they like, and I do think everyone would be much more happy if BGEE developers focus all their efforts on things we modders cannot do, rather than wasting their time trying to do something we're probably more prepared to do than themselves.
Well if we are going in that direction, why follow 2nd rules at all? Lets just make more changes that further the game from what it was based off. *Shrugs* As for wanting pets added, never stated I did, simply stated your logic was flawed, did I come off harsh, probably, but I'm also tired of people being"Oh this is like WoW so it must be evil"
I would not be surprised if that mentality was why many games made since have been very lackluster overall.
if some sort of animal companion was added, I'd be perfectly fine with something along the lines of what Faldorn (Assuming I spelled that right) who can summon the Dread Wolf has, just a simple summons you can use when you need it, that or something similar to what Wizards egt with summon Familiar, but a animal instead of magical beast.
Don't get how the difficulty of the game has anything to do with what I said, not sure where you were going with that one.
Also last I checked Genre does kind of matter, otherwise it wouldn't exist.
ARPG plays different than CRPG which plays different than MMORPG, you might not care for the difference, but a great many do.
but whatever, my thoughts are just that, take them as you will.
@sandmanCCL Yea, your right. I've never been good with typed tone, tends to come off more harsh than intended.
Your judgement was too quick, because you didn't know (and still don't seem to understand) what my thought process was --
Permanent pets are something that Blizzard, after ~8 years of iterative development, never got quite right. They've been riddled with bugs, pathing problems, and balance issues for their entire history. *That's* what I was referencing. This has nothing to do with WoW being "evil." I know the game's reputation, that's why I made a small joke about it.
Anyway: What do you think the chances are that anyone would be able to implement permanent pets well in a game engine that's over ten years old? And in a game engine and UI that didn't originally support them?
You've broadened your definition so much it sounds like you're now talking about Totemic Druids. Summoned creatures are a different subject entirely.
Also, very simply: If you add a permanent pet, you increase the party's DPS in every fight at no cost. That would make the game easier. If you've ever run a smaller party and later moved to a larger one, that should be obvious.
Like someone said, I enjoy the levelling ten times more in 2nd edition than its 3rd edition counterpart. Levelling up at nearly all the same time is dry.
And like someone else said, I do agree that in multi-class terms, you should only gain access to the HLA of the class that's just levelled up, not both.
@Dragonspear
>In the ORIGINAL baldur's gate there were no Scimitars
I know that, but are you saying Drizzt was added with TotSC? :P
-------------------------------------------------
Fur cloak
This item is made from the furs of various animals, and gives off a strong scent to those nearby. As a result, any furred animals near a wearer of this cloak will regard them as just another resident of the forest and leave them be. In game terms, the wearer and partymembers are protected by a Santuary type effect. Wolves and Bears in the game will not attack the party unless attacked first. Once the protection is broken (by being covered in the scent of animal death), the protection will not reset until a map change.
Only wearable by Druids and Rangers.
-------------------------------------------------
What would be really nice, but will only come in mods, if then, would be items that give bonuses while shapechanged. Items that give you mild regen, make your claws poisonous or make them plus weapons, give you an AC bonus, or other things.