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RP issues and the thieves' guild

So, I'm doing the job for Renal with my CG C/T. I'm not sure how I should feel about the mission Edwin sends you on to take out the Cowled Wizard. On one hand, it advances the investigation for Renal. On the other hand, I have a good party, with Minsc, who (justifiably) hates Edwin and quite frankly, neither me nor my character would like him either.

RP-wise, I took a trip to the gov't district to see if I could talk to someone there to make some headway with finding Imoen, but hit the wall of bureaucracy and all around rudeness. The C of the CG in the character definitely sees itself as not a fan of the oppresive gov't enterprise who has possibly unjustly imprisoned his best friend. On the other hand, does that really warrant killing one of them to help another enemy.

I think the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" defense is a little weak here. The shadow thieves aren't really a part of my solution to rescue Imoen. I've already been approached by Nalia and can make the money for Galen that way. I don't see how helping Edwin helps me.

That being said, the running the guild is a halfway decent way to make a couple bucks, but the guild doesn't seem like a good RP option for a good party. Minsc has already complained once about it and I kinda agree with him. He's being a real sport about it all so far, but I'm also feeling like the whole thing goes against RP.

Anyway, I'm feeling morally grey about these guys. Does the thieves' guild really fit in a good party? If so, how would you RP it?



  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,646
    the thieves guild does not fit with a good party, but you are a thief so to work with thieves fits with charname class. so there are reasons for siding with them and not following the alternative route.

    talking of the stronghold it fits with charname but not with the party charname has chosen, probably rp wise taking the cleric one is a better choice.

    but you have a deal with renal and killing the cowled wizard is a part of it, or at least you have to do it to progress in the task renal gave you. still is an assassination and not every thief is also an assassin. the only way you can do it is using a spell to detect evil, you will discover that the CW is LE, then as it helps you earning some money to rescue imoen, as the CW are the organization that arrested imoen, as youhave a deal with renal and as killing him you kill an evil guy is possible that the chaotic part of you tells:"ok, let's do it". or the good part can prevail and you can tell: no, he is evil, he is a CW but i am not an assassin.
    your choice, i will probably would leave him alive RP wise.

    even if you decide to complete the deal is probably better to take the alternative reward and refuse to run the maevar's guild. and surely in every case i would not recruit edvin.

    so imo
    1. side with thieves guild to rescue imoen: yes
    2. kill the CW and complete the deal with renal: probably not, but there are some reasons that make the opposite choice at least a little RP correct.
    3. take the thief stronghold: no, go for the cleric one.
    4. recruit edwin: no, an evil mage in a good oriented party? maybe you can kill him when you meet him in the CC. a perfect chaotic solution of the dilemma. he, evil, send you to kill an other evil mage. both the mages are members of organizations that you don't appreciate, no reason for a CG to appreciate the CW or the red mages of thay. you kill them both and the work is done, everybody is happy...

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,142

    Neither of the choices charname are given are good.
    It's a matter of the less of two evils.

    I think RP wise, if you wanted to be "good" then you wouldn't be a thief. I don't think being chaotic excuses that. In a setting with "thief guilds" then you would be doing bad things and one of them would be killing people who get in the way (people who react when you rob them for instance).

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 513
    The only real way to justify it is to be pragmatic and accept that whilst you are running a criminal enterprise at least you can choose to use the proceeds for good and minimize the harm, the alternative is someone likely a lot worse than you taking over.

  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,589
    If you are good guy I don't see how you can end up running a thieves' guild. But then . . .

    . . at the end of Throne of Bhaal we learn that Imoen "may have founded a thieves' guild that now operates all the way to Neverwinter" - and yet she is still best buds with Elminster . . .

    . . . so what do I know?

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,734
    Well Edwin's quest can be a good lead into finding the Coweled wizards. Its not your fault you went upstairs to talk and the wizard immediately tried to kill you. As for the thief guild, you could run it Robin Hood style (though my good charnames usually pass), robbing exclusively from the corrupt rich and distributing it to the poor. You could rp it by donating funds to the churches, and assuming that your character forbids killing in the guild.

  • LarkusLarkus Member Posts: 52
    You could also flesh-to-stone the Cowled Wizard. Quest givers will accept that as a kill. Later you can return and reverse the spell. I made use of that tactic in my pacifist run. Maybe roleplay it as disappearing the Cowled Wizard temporarily and just claiming you killed him (you do something comparable in another mission later in the quest line). After you have your reward you can leave Edwin to deal with the angry Cowled Wizard.

  • _Nightfall__Nightfall_ Member Posts: 319
    edited September 2018
    He IS evil after all. Also keeps a bunch of imps, I mean, this is not a good guy. Role playing can be tough, as a paladin I will not even work for the thieves until I meet the very evil Bodhi and will never do this quest at all. There are ways to tell if someone is good or bad though.

    This is a cleric so there is no confusion. Jeanne d'Arc is a better paladin name, don't ya think?

  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 679
    If you have Keldorn in the party he will comment that he doesn’t like being used as an assassin but that killing an evil Cowled Wizard is a good thing. And he doesn’t leave the party over it.

    So I figure if Keldorn is okay with it (even if he has some reservations) it’s okay with me.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,646
    good point, even if i suspect that the OP is going to run a C/I or R/C charname so this topic is now somehow obsolete.
    can you confirm it @Kneller?

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